|
Post by axelvonfersen on Jan 22, 2021 3:15:17 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I'm currently in the process of creating a links-course and I have a few pot bunkers (actually, I have many bunkers, but this thread isn't about all of them) guarding doglegs if people choose to go Tiger Line to gain a few yards.
I'm reasoning that if you want to go Tiger Line there should be consequences if you fail, rather than aiming for the middle of the fairway and play it safe. With bunkers not really being challenging in 2k21 I've been working on making the front lip of the bunker bigger to stop players from grabbing their driver/wood/hybrid/longest iron and smack it down the fairway.
I'm currently at a place with these bunkers that a 5I will get you out, but generally a 4I or longer won't, depending on where the ball sits in the bunker of course. What's your take? Is it too punishing? Or "just right"?
|
|
|
Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jan 22, 2021 8:44:33 GMT -5
As a player, my decision on trying to clear the lip lies on if I can reach the green (or next preferred landing zone on a par5) with the longer club. So, in the case you mentioned, if a 4iron still isn't enough to reach from in the bunker, it becomes moot and I might as well play a safe 5 or even 6.
Now if it's just meant to be penal with no chance of still reaching my target, lip height is not as of much consideration as I take my layup medicine.
1) I'm not that good a player & 2) I speak NOT as a designer here.
|
|
|
Post by axelvonfersen on Jan 22, 2021 9:22:28 GMT -5
Good points. This hole in particular is a reachable par-5 where a 3I could get you on to the green.
|
|
|
Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jan 22, 2021 14:56:18 GMT -5
So it sounds like I might very well try & run it up with a good lie, so the lip is in play.
Otherwise, if I can't get within 25 yds to splash, I'd rather be a full wedge in, so maybe only a lazy 8 iron from the trap to set that up. Of course, elevation and pin placement, and our respective clubs will factor in. But all things being neutral ...
|
|
|
Post by mvpmanatee on Jan 23, 2021 12:04:06 GMT -5
I am in the opinion that we as designers typically make bunkers that are too easy.
A few of the great designers in this community have made bunkers that are tricky and really highlight the strategies, but then they usually get bombarded with players complaining that they aren’t fair. It’s always a fine line to walk on between making them punishing, so as they truly are “hazards”, but keep them benign enough to not push players to dislike the round.
In reality you really have to consider the ideal difficulty of the course, and the players you are targeting with it. I built a course last that was designed for CC quality, and I made bunkers that were considerably easier on the next course I am doing. Every course is going to have difference in the bunker difficulty and there’s no right answer. I think designing to a specific club or distance is always a bad hole to get yourself into.
|
|
|
Post by joegolferg on Jan 23, 2021 12:09:51 GMT -5
They should be far tougher than how most people design them. One reason I absolutely love flat bottoms with steep grass banks. Throws up a much tougher up and down compared to your usual shallow spoon bunker.
|
|
|
Post by mvpmanatee on Jan 23, 2021 19:22:53 GMT -5
They should be far tougher than how most people design them. One reason I absolutely love flat bottoms with steep grass banks. Throws up a much tougher up and down compared to your usual shallow spoon bunker. Joe, your bunkering is by far the best I have played in this community. I always love the difficulty that you produce, and it really makes me doubt my swing. It’s how it should be!
|
|
|
Post by csugolfer60 on Jan 23, 2021 22:53:00 GMT -5
The best way to say this while leaving it open to interpretation - The result of taking the dangerous route and failing must be more penal than taking the safe route, otherwise there is no strategy. Your bunker should be penal enough to prevent the result that happens after laying up. If you can advance the ball as well on the next shot out of the bunker as you could after playing safe on the previous shot, you need to make your bunker more difficult to escape from. As an example, on a par 5 - If you go for it, you clear it, you can go for the green in two. If you lay up, you can lay up your second shot to 50-75 yards or so. If you go for it and fail, the bunker must prevent you from hitting it inside 150 yards, so the third shot is more challenging. This makes laying up on the first shot a legitimate choice. Hope this helps. I agree with joegolferg, flat bottom bunkers help with this immensely because you can control the trajectory from the bunker that will clear the lip easier.
|
|