bravecaleb
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 292
TGCT Name: Caleb Randolph
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Post by bravecaleb on Jan 3, 2021 0:44:46 GMT -5
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to the forum and have been designing for a good amount of time but one thing I really struggle with is fairway undulations, I'm wondering how you guys capture that look and how you feed that into strategy, I can't figure out what brushes you guys are using and how you can manipulate the fairways into good and bad lines to the greens?
Any help would be much appreciated, and thank you in advance, God Bless.
My course fairways tend to be unininteresting and generally flat I'll attach some pictures from my courses for an example...
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Post by lessthanbread on Jan 3, 2021 1:34:27 GMT -5
My thought around fairway undulations is that they should either match or compliment the surrounding landscape. It doesn’t make much sense when you have humps and bumps around the course then the fairways are just dead flat. That’s from a visual standpoint.
From a strategic standpoint it gets trickier. The fairway undulations play a huge part in golfer decision making even when they don’t know it does. They can make a hard shot look a lot easier or make an easy shot look harder. When sculpting fairways for playing purposes I think about where the golfer will want to go. Where do they want to land the ball and where do they want it to stop? Then I ask myself do I want to help them get to that area or do I want to make it more challenging to get there.
Then I sculpt what makes sense for strategy within the bounds of the overall feel of my course. Remember, little raises/lowering goes a long way for where the ball will bounce and roll but also don’t be afraid to try stuff out. Just do lots and lots of play testing and if it works they way you want and adds strategy, you’re good
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bravecaleb
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 292
TGCT Name: Caleb Randolph
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Post by bravecaleb on Jan 3, 2021 8:27:07 GMT -5
Thanks man, well described post. Much appreciation
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Post by lessthanbread on Jan 3, 2021 11:30:35 GMT -5
I should have posted this above but it just came to mind. The designer has this annoying habit of autoflattening fairway splines when you fill them. To help get more natural flow between rough and fairway, check out this video by Mayday on randomizing a plot so fairways don’t autoflatten.
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Post by bmckenzie69 on Jan 5, 2021 16:41:27 GMT -5
I have found that using raise/lower in addition to flatten can make a huge difference. Use the fuzzy brush and make sure to incorporate the adjacent land as noted above so it fits the landscape. It takes a LOT of time to get the subtle humps and bumps that play well and look nice.
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Post by Q on Jan 5, 2021 16:53:39 GMT -5
A lot of undulations are from water draining, when designing I like to imagine how water would drain on a hole and create valleys at low points that trickle off the fairways. Think like dry creek beds. I almost exclusively use the fuzzy brush flatten tool to make undulations which might sound counter-intuitive but if you have a slope and you flatten it using a tiny brush you will end up with a bump!
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Post by trailducker on Jan 8, 2021 23:49:17 GMT -5
I should have posted this above but it just came to mind. The designer has this annoying habit of autoflattening fairway splines when you fill them. To help get more natural flow between rough and fairway, check out this video by Mayday on randomizing a plot so fairways don’t autoflatten. I tried to do this meathod on my first course but sounds like I didn't quite achieve it properly. Some of the undulations in my fairways I thought made "randomness" were critiqued. Finding the balance of random for natural look and random thats unnatural is a big key and probably just takes reps to master properly. My first course also had some dramtic elevation changes and I have an idea for a more flat course whcih may be a better way to learn, so try #2 in a month or two hopefully I will feel a little more conifdent in this. But this method to start is really cool because your fairways don't flatten out and create that dumb ledge on the sides.
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Post by lessthanbread on Jan 9, 2021 11:01:34 GMT -5
I should have posted this above but it just came to mind. The designer has this annoying habit of autoflattening fairway splines when you fill them. To help get more natural flow between rough and fairway, check out this video by Mayday on randomizing a plot so fairways don’t autoflatten. I tried to do this meathod on my first course but sounds like I didn't quite achieve it properly. Some of the undulations in my fairways I thought made "randomness" were critiqued. Finding the balance of random for natural look and random thats unnatural is a big key and probably just takes reps to master properly. My first course also had some dramtic elevation changes and I have an idea for a more flat course whcih may be a better way to learn, so try #2 in a month or two hopefully I will feel a little more conifdent in this. But this method to start is really cool because your fairways don't flatten out and create that dumb ledge on the sides. Yes I found you have to go over the plot a lot with the blue brush so every little bit of it gets seen as “edited land”. When using the randomized plot technique, I’ll go over it and over it many times doing little raises and lowers to make sure it’s all edited
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Post by b101 on Jan 13, 2021 10:23:47 GMT -5
However you do it, key thing is to design the hole with the undulations already there so that they factor into the design and so that you use them intelligently. Generally speaking, those courses where the humps and hollows are thrown in randomly afterwards will generally feel just that - random.
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Post by mpad on Jan 15, 2021 12:39:02 GMT -5
I have been playing all the Dream Team Courses. Clearly fairway undulations are the current big “thing” in designing. The judges seemed to love this (in the main). But, as Ben says, just because you can should’t mean you should go mad. In terms of playability I found some of the courses which the judges loved had huge undulations. They looked sexy but actually were less than natural and not akin to what the average golfer ever sees on an an actual course. So, as always in life, there is a difference in designing for show, and designing for the average (and that is the bulk) of players. This is not a criticism of any course, competition or judging, just an observation. I like sexy, but I also much like, and value more gentle, design work.
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Post by b101 on Jan 15, 2021 14:59:40 GMT -5
Yes and no - depends on the course you’re imitating, which can lead to personal preference. Lost Preserve nailed the Bandon undulations, which may not be a course the average player tends to play that often, but they are very realistic. In comparison, a course like Chu Ko Nu did the subtle land movement brilliantly, whilst still retaining the links qualities, Bryn Awelon got the rolling hills of Wales perfectly and at the other end of the spectrum, Shaker Valley’s parkland feel was really well done, too.
Key is to study courses in the style you’re going for and replicate that. Wouldn’t say undulations need to be on every course but also that not all courses with land movement should feature equal land movement. Even within the links courses you have, they are vastly different geographically and therefore in terms of landforms. Tara Iti is different to St Andrews which is different to Birkdale which is different to Ballybunion which is different to St George’s which is different to Bandon etc etc. Loads of variety so it’s worth keying in to which type you’re after and also looking at how real life golf holes within that landscape work.
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Post by mpad on Jan 15, 2021 15:38:38 GMT -5
Listen to Ben. He is the wisest voice! Thank you for everything you do to enhance both the knowledge and enjoyment of this wonderful course designer software
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Jan 15, 2021 18:30:18 GMT -5
Listen to Ben. He is the wisest voice! Thank you for everything you do to enhance both the knowledge and enjoyment of this wonderful course designer software "Mmmmmmm" -Ben
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Post by rockfour1 on Feb 5, 2021 10:02:49 GMT -5
I should have posted this above but it just came to mind. The designer has this annoying habit of autoflattening fairway splines when you fill them. To help get more natural flow between rough and fairway, check out this video by Mayday on randomizing a plot so fairways don’t autoflatten. Yeah, I've been using Mayday's technique all the time when I start out a plot. Auto-flattened fairways don't look natural when juxtaposed to undulated natural landscapes.
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