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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Dec 24, 2020 18:31:32 GMT -5
I think what Ben is getting at is blind bunkers are fine if done with a purpose. 99 percent of the blindness that comes to the reviewers (and I'm not talking about your course specifically) is because the designer doesn't understand the tools. Usually if the bunkers are blind (again not your course specifically) they are also not well sculpted. When a shot or hazard is blind and looks like a mistake (not specifically your course) its because it is. It looks more like a mistake when other basics are missed. If scaling is all over the board (again not your course specifically) where greens are large and relatively flat on a somewhat closed in (not yours) course and bunkers are 40 yards long and 30 yards wide but fairways are 15 yards wide right next to it then its safe to assume the designer (not you) doesn't quite understand the basics. What I would recommend to anyone who's putting out courses (not yours) that are balancing on the approved tightrope is to watch canucks videos a lot. Once you understand that your bunkers and sightilines and green sculpting and scaling (not yours yours, just in general) is not up to par then you can build on that. Save blind shots and hazards until you get the basic concepts of design down (again not you specifically). Thanks, maybe Ben's stance is unclear somehow to somebody. We know what side of the fence many of the commenters are clearly on, folks have indeed learned something here.
That is all good advice for folks regarding acceptance basics ... I am 6 for 8, but apparently by dumb luck, so do as they say, not me.
Either overuse of sarcasm, or polite but unneccessary, all the parentheticals (?) ...
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Dec 24, 2020 19:21:34 GMT -5
6 for 8? That's not a great ratio tbh. Especially if it isn't 6 for the last 6. By 8 courses, the right mindset and guidance, I think you should be at consistent tour worthy. But this thread is about a general design idea and not a specific designer portfolio or course, so can we keep it on track please?
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Dec 25, 2020 8:23:08 GMT -5
6 for 8? That's not a great ration tbh. Especially if it isn't 6 for the last 6. By 8 courses, the right mindset and guidance, I think you should be at consistent tour worthy. But this thread is about a general design idea and not a specific designer portfolio or course, so can we keep it on track please? Since you brought it up, I get to respond. I'm not above that on an e-game forum. I did say "it could be dumb luck, listen to the other guys, not me", so I was using my incredibly pathetic lack-of-success rate as a dissuasion technique. Considering I don't design with anything but enjoyable golf in mind, when one course is accepted, that's a perk. I have yet to design with acceptance 'in mind'. Submitting a course is a perk of membership I'm allowed like everyone else, and if I get good feedback on one, or are just feeling confident about it, it gets submitted. I don't mind talking about my design efforts in general, and if someone else wants to use my work as a bad example, fine. I'm just through with tht particular bunker b101 wants to flog me about. You know, if I was banned from submitting courses or the TGCT site vanished, it wouldn't really change how much I enjoy the game. Although I miss solo societies so much ... FWIW, if this is as much fun for you as it seems to be (people keep following my post voluntarily after all), I am happy to occasionally respond in my fashion to keep the fans entertained. Taunt away, if Im playing the heel instead of the babyface, so be it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 12:31:01 GMT -5
At the end of the day we all have an opinion on whether you like hidden bunkers or not but to suggest that they're unrealistic unless the whole shot it blind is just factually incorrect. I play many courses that are older and newer designs that have hidden bunkers on well revealed fairways/greens. In regards to the tagged link from an American Architects Association I can't say I'm surprised as there has always been that divide in opinion between the US and UK especially judging by the difference in styles of courses between the two countries. As for Mackenzie it was his opinion that bunkering should be visible almost all of the time and he is entitled to that opinion, but it is just his opinion and not a law on bunkering. In a nutshell all I'm saying is that there is no right and wrong on having hidden bunkers. It's not wrong or unrealistic to have them. That said, In the context of TGC design you do see many courses built with UNINTENTIONALLY blind bunkers due to lack of sculpting skills or just pure laziness. This is unacceptable for courses that are submitted for approval. I know we are quite many that plays real life golf here - and we have all played different courses around the world - some worse than others, and some better. The fact that features exist in real courses doesn't mean that they are good (or bad for that matter). I think the thread "worst hole in golf" is a statement to many bad things we can see on courses. And ofcourse this is about personal preference and taste on many subjects - but in the end, with all the players I have played with over the years - blindness is not something we like to see on a course. And I firmly believe that to be the case for the vast majority of golfers. I have played par 3 where on the tee I can't see the flag or the green. I say - it is pure luck on your aiming, not skill. And that is not good. And I also do not think golfers in general like hidden pure penal pot bunkers in the middle of the fairways. In my opinion - this is just luck and not strategy. So from my golfing perspective, visiibility is important so the golfer can make strategic decisions on different shots. And as I said before - if I hit a bad tee shot and are left with a blind approach - that is completely fine - I am penalized for a bad shot. But to have the blind shot from a good tee shot that lands in the middle of the fairway - no. The things I dislike most in golf, is to be penalized on good shots. If I nail my drive, and find myself in the rough because of a repellent fairway - that is bad design in my book. So in general - I agree completely with Mackenzie - the rule of thumb should be visibility (ofcourse not always possible, but when possible).
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