4 Thoughts on Golf Design

[csugolfer60]

1.) Avoid the word "fairness" like the plague.

"Fair" - "Free From Bias or Injustice"

It's a word sometimes used by players who don't understand the goal of the game - to get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible. Sometimes, you can't play at the pin. Sometimes, missing the green low is better than having a downhill putt from the other side. Sometimes, you can't reach the green on a par 4. All of these things are vilified in the design community.

In order for something to be "unfair", it must provide a biased advantage in some way. It's impossible for a golf course, shot or pin to be "unfair". No one has an advantage, and the course is not a competitor, so it doesn't have an advantage either.

2.) Par is a somewhat useless concept in The Golf Club.

"Par", as it was originally conceived, described the number of shots on average a scratch player would take to hole the ball. It's been twisted and mangled over the years to become something of a standard for distance and difficulty. It's also mostly used to allow spectators to follow the action of who is leading a golf tournament.

Look at the number of shots you would normally take to finish a hole you create. Is it a 310 yard hole, and you average about 3.1 shots? It's a par 3, despite common thought.

If you're looking for a way to determine the relative difficulty of a course of certain length, look at the total strokes taken, not relative to par.

Example - If you make Tomahawk Golf Club a par 57, Jeremy still would have won the Humana, because he played the best. His winning score may have been close to even par, but the best player still won.

3.) You can have a realistic golf course, or a realistic scoring relative to par. You cannot have both...

This isn't a bad thing  , it's just not possible to recreate a realistic golf course and condition, and have said course play the same relative to par as in real life. TGC is a video game, and a great one! But, it is not a "realistic" simulation of the game of golf.

I've always tried to recreate the "feeling" of playing championship golf, the way HB tried to recreate the "feeling" of playing golf. Green size, fairway side, bunker depth, and pin locations are exaggerated to make it more difficult than you would see in a real life golf course, but only to offset the advantages the player has in the game over real life.

4.) You cannot please everyone, but ALWAYS be proud of your work.

There are no "bad" golf courses. There are no objective rules for designing golf courses. There is no one way that "works" over the others.

Everyone has their own idea of what they want out of a golf course. Design for yourself, and for the enjoyment of those who like your work. And stand behind it, even when some may tear it down.

Golf courses are art, and each one is unique, interesting, and original. Push boundaries, break the rules, and most of all - have fun doing it.

[foolinjection]

I don't think a truer, more accurate piece has been written on the subject of Course Design on TGC than this piece here. Very well written Sir, I doff my hat to thee.

[reebdoog]

...*imagines playing golf on a Jackson Pollock painting*...

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and say that a golf course could be bad even if it's art.

HA!

[foolinjection]

Apr 2, 2015 9:54:42 GMT -5 reebdoog said:

...*imagines playing golf on a Jackson Pollock painting*...

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and say that a golf course could be bad even if it's art.

HA!

Actually, speaking of artists and golf.  I remember back in the Jack Nicklaus PC golf days a guy built a course called "The Hague" which was inspired by a Dutch artist and where everything was square or had sharp 90 degree angles.  The greens, the bunkers, the lot.

A guy who ran a site called Artists' Golf painted a course overview picture for it (he's done others as well for real courses which are pretty nice I might add)  It's the only picture I can find of it now.  But I remember it being a really fun course to play.

[mcbogga]

Apr 2, 2015 9:28:54 GMT -5 csugolfer60 said:

1.) Avoid the word "fairness" like the plague.

"Fair" - "Free From Bias or Injustice"

It's a word sometimes used by players who don't understand the goal of the game - to get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible. Sometimes, you can't play at the pin. Sometimes, missing the green low is better than having a downhill putt from the other side. Sometimes, you can't reach the green on a par 4. All of these things are vilified in the design community.

In order for something to be "unfair", it must provide a biased advantage in some way. It's impossible for a golf course, shot or pin to be "unfair". No one has an advantage, and the course is not a competitor, so it doesn't have an advantage either.

2.) Par is a somewhat useless concept in The Golf Club.

"Par", as it was originally conceived, described the number of shots on average a scratch player would take to hole the ball. It's been twisted and mangled over the years to become something of a standard for distance and difficulty. It's also mostly used to allow spectators to follow the action of who is leading a golf tournament.

Look at the number of shots you would normally take to finish a hole you create. Is it a 310 yard hole, and you average about 3.1 shots? It's a par 3, despite common thought.

If you're looking for a way to determine the relative difficulty of a course of certain length, look at the total strokes taken, not relative to par.

Example - If you make Tomahawk Golf Club a par 57, Jeremy still would have won the Humana, because he played the best. His winning score may have been close to even par, but the best player still won.

3.) You can have a realistic golf course, or a realistic scoring relative to par. You cannot have both...

This isn't a bad thing  , it's just not possible to recreate a realistic golf course and condition, and have said course play the same relative to par as in real life. TGC is a video game, and a great one! But, it is not a "realistic" simulation of the game of golf.

I've always tried to recreate the "feeling" of playing championship golf, the way HB tried to recreate the "feeling" of playing golf. Green size, fairway side, bunker depth, and pin locations are exaggerated to make it more difficult than you would see in a real life golf course, but only to offset the advantages the player has in the game over real life.

4.) You cannot please everyone, but ALWAYS be proud of your work.

There are no "bad" golf courses. There are no objective rules for designing golf courses. There is no one way that "works" over the others.

Everyone has their own idea of what they want out of a golf course. Design for yourself, and for the enjoyment of those who like your work. And stand behind it, even when some may tear it down.

Golf courses are art, and each one is unique, interesting, and original. Push boundaries, break the rules, and most of all - have fun doing it.

Excellent piece - well put and from a real authority. One of the best I have read on here. Your courses are consistently some of the best that can be found and the part about "feel" of golf and tournament set ups is so true. Also the piece about fairness is dead on. Golf is unfair at its core - that is one of the things that make the game great.

Don't quite agree with you on 2 and 3 however.

2 - there is a way - removing the putting grid to normalize the putting. Without any bias if this is enjoyable or not it does equalize the scoring and makes the game more of a simulation.

3 - from a purist perspective I still think there is a value in "par". Your courses usually do a good job at defending par, so it's interesting hearing this from you. I think that the game is much more enjoyable where birdie is a reward for good execution or putting and par the norm rather than having birdie the norm and a better result on a hole only being attainable by luck.

By the way - just played cuyahoga (badly) and it's another masterpiece.

[kopfschuss]

Apr 2, 2015 10:02:11 GMT -5 foolinjection said:

Apr 2, 2015 9:54:42 GMT -5 reebdoog said:

...*imagines playing golf on a Jackson Pollock painting*...

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and say that a golf course could be bad even if it's art.

HA!

Actually, speaking of artists and golf.  I remember back in the Jack Nicklaus PC golf days a guy built a course called "The Hague" which was inspired by a Dutch artist and where everything was square or had sharp 90 degree angles.  The greens, the bunkers, the lot.

A guy who ran a site called Artists' Golf painted a course overview picture for it (he's done others as well for real courses which are pretty nice I might add)  It's the only picture I can find of it now.  But I remember it being a really fun course to play.

That's really cool . I'd play it

[pursuantmoth76]

Apr 29, 2015 8:40:38 GMT -5 kopfschuss said:

Apr 2, 2015 10:02:11 GMT -5 foolinjection said:

Actually, speaking of artists and golf.  I remember back in the Jack Nicklaus PC golf days a guy built a course called "The Hague" which was inspired by a Dutch artist and where everything was square or had sharp 90 degree angles.  The greens, the bunkers, the lot.

A guy who ran a site called Artists' Golf painted a course overview picture for it (he's done others as well for real courses which are pretty nice I might add)  It's the only picture I can find of it now.  But I remember it being a really fun course to play.

That's really cool . I'd play it

It looks like Abstract Meadows Golf Community in the game, except without any houses!

[Shawn O'Brian]

Great Piece. I definitely design my courses from an artistic and feel point of view as well. Lately however I have been considering what "PAR" is when designing the holes. By that I mean not what it says PAR is based on distance, but what the player "in this game" would shoot based on what I have seen. I completely agee with you on that. I f "PAR" in real life is based on the average scratch golfer, then par here should be about a stroke less per hole for a real representation. As you stated, ways I use my designs to counteract this difference is tighter landing zones, deeper bunkers, precise multi tiered greens and undulation (but fair amount of flat zones that reward accurate approaches. I think the difference can be made up in putting really. I think the average player here probably drives further and more accurate than real life with woods so that's the players advantage. However, the approach shots are probably, on average, very similar. Putting as well. So how do I make the shots come out right. As a designer I submit to the players skill and use it against him. I'll give you the drive and even the 3 wood fairway shot. When you get to the greens I will try to make you 3 putt as to give a more accurate representation of score. Usually what I try to do is three tiers with possible flag positions in each 3 but with 10" to 1' of elevation difference between tiers. What this does is it gives the player a nice flat 10 ft landing zone at 3 different levels and rewards hitting the right on. It also penalizes by making putting from the wrong one very difficult. Hit 2 tiers out and you are almost surely 3 putting. Its all in the designers preference but I consider all of these things when designing my courses. I'm getting better and better I think, I like them, I think there good , fair, challenging courses, but if they never get played, I'm cool with that to. Kinda like being a starving artist I guess. Great read though, thanks man!

[mgwest24]

Awesome post. Completely agree on fairness and par. Most of the best holes in golf are 'half par' holes imo. For example, the road hole at St. Andrew's isn't great because of how hard it is in relation to other par 4's, but it's great for all the strategy that goes into getting the ball in the hole in the lowest strokes regardless of par. And as I believe Allister Mackenzie said, there's no such thing as an unfair hazard.