LiDAR Prairie Dunes Country Club (2k21 WIP)

[akick31]

I'm working on importing my 2019 TGC LiDAR Prairie Dunes and have released the alpha version under the pseudonym "Kansas Dunes (Alpha)" in 2k21. I would love honest feedback so I know what to improve. 

As a heads up, the greens are extremely difficult and I know they'll almost 100% be labeled as illegal for TGC Tours. This is fine by me, the greens at this course are notoriously difficult and why the course is so hard when it is such a short course. I can attest that the greens are accurate, not only from it being LiDAR data, but from having grown up playing there. However, if there's something way too extreme on that front, please let me know. 

As a summary for the course before you get into it, it's a Scottish links style course in the heart of Kansas. It was designed by Perry Maxwell originally as a 9 hole course in 1937. 20 years later, his son came in and built the other 9 holes. The original 9 holes are mixed throughout the front and back 9, but the most iconic holes were designed by him (2, 8, 17). It has hosted the 2002 U.S. Women's Open, the 2006 U.S. Senior Open, the 2014 NCAA Division I Men's Golf Championships and numerous Big 12 Championships. As I mentioned earlier, it is a short course at  6,759 yards, too short for the PGA to ever travel to the course. What makes it so difficult is it's sloping greens, it's almost as if an elephant was buried under a mound in the green in some places. It is consistently in the top 25 range on the Top 100 Courses rankings and a gorgeous course, with the signature scenery being the rolling dunes of grass (hence the name). 

Please play the course and give honest feedback on what can improve and errors that I may have missed when polishing the course after the import. You can find it under "Kansas Dunes (Alpha)", as I mentioned above. 

I look forward to hearing your feedback and hopefully can release the final product here soon!

[scoll3]

Played this and thought it was excellent! And oh my greens! Maxwell truly had no lack of creativity when it came to putting surfaces.

All of the notes below you can take and use at your discretion, I just thought I’d give you my thoughts on some little things here and there to hopefully help make the course better for the final product.


Overall, I think a lower lighting setting would definetly look better. There’s not too many trees so you wouldn’t get many shadows, and the subtle rumples in the fairways and greens would really shine.

Also not sure what you can do, but the trees surrounding the course can be a bit too sporadic at times and can be really easy to see through and over them to the bare edge of the plot. Not sure if you have any space left to plant on some of the uncovered perimeter.

You also should either have light rough surrounding the greens as a second surface or get rid of the light rough all together... it’s strange having light rough in the fairway and then it just disappearing up by the green. I’m not sure what Prairie Dunes actually does for having light rough or not, but choosing something to do for the entirety of the course instead of only half would be best.

Hole 3 - I know this doesn’t affect play at all but it looks like on google earth that there’s a small bunker short right off the fairway that’s missing in game.

Hole 8 - the transition from the fairway to the green is a bit off... try to make the fairway splines blend smoothly into the green splines instead of flaring out sideways before the green...

Hole 9 - this is picky... but the right green side bunker has a little grass island in it if you look on google earth. In game however, the sand doesn’t come over the top.

Hole 10 - here again the fairway lines don’t blend well into the green in the front. Make those lines match up like you see in google earth.

Hole 11 - fairway and green lines could be matched up better here in the front of the green.

Hole 13 - strange I don’t see any fairway surrounding the green in google earth but in game there is. You probably should take out that fairway surrounding the green and just have it connect to the green in the front.

Hole 17 - exact same thing here as 13

Hole 18 - if you could tidy up the splines in the transition from the fairway to the green here that’d be wonderful. Again they flare out just before the green and it looks wonky.


This course is already playing better than it did in tgc2019, and I’m excited to see what it’ll look like with a lower lighting and some little tweaks! Thank you for your hard work on this too... the course is too good not to have a good version of it that you already have!

[scoll3]

Oh and I’d also recommend setting up the course as firm as possible given that’s how it plays on a daily basis for members. Since the course is short too, I wouldn’t mind some added difficulty on the greens. With firm greens as well, players will have to think about preferred lines of play on different sides of the fairway, as often at Prairie Dunes, being on one side of the fairway going to a certain pin can be a lot easier or difficult than the other side due to the strategic contours of the greens.

[mctrees02]

PD Notes
- you’re missing the water in the trees right of 1. Many don’t know it’s there but I have found that creek before trying to bite off too much out of the right rough.
- Back left of 2 green needs some contouring work.  It's not as much of a red slope as it is a steady yellow/orange slope that will then send balls trickling down into the front left bunker. Whenever the pin is left, it reminds me that not all 20' putts are meant to be made.  Sometimes just getting your tee shot at/below the hole and your first putt inside 3' and staying on the green is an absolute win. 
- The left side of 3 green should be running off the back from the middle on.  It's not an aggressive break but wedges/short irons that fly into the left side typically release towards the back unless you're into a north wind. 
- 5 tee box planting needs work as the gunch shouldn't be blocking the sight lines. Add gunch to the right side with OB (barbed wire fence) about 35 yards right of fairway.  It's laughed at how the short left bunker off the tee always feels in play at Prairie Dunes but when I have a driver that carries 290 in the game, I almost thought you had missed that bunker until I saw it was only 225 off the tee lol. 
- Mix up the tree line right of 6 so it’s not the same tree over and over. Use a few different oaks and vary their heights.
- Front left of 6 green needs to be lowered. There's a false front there and the left side also runs off pretty quickly.
- Greenside bunkers on 7 need sculpting. Back bunker should be a steep faced blowout bunker.
- There needs to be a snake by the clubhouse water station alongside 10 tee. I speak from experience walking up on both a large bull snake and a cottonmouth hiding under there on hot summer days on separate occasions.
- Chute hole needs the trees tighter to the tee.  As best I see on Google Earth, there should be about 10-13yds of space between them.  
- 17 green is really well done...but short and right needs to be lower to the green. I shouldn’t be able to see any of the putting surface or even a flagstick unless it’s front right.
- 

All in all this is a really well done RCR that actually feels like Prairie Dunes to me (the version in TGC19 did not). I would max out the turf firmness and adjust to early or late lighting to better show off the course.  You could also go with something around 15:30-45 on the clock and remove the clouds.  

[scoll3]

Any update on your progress here? Excited to play this whenever you finish!

[kocgolf]

I'm not sure if the course has undergone any changes recently, but I spent three years on this course back in the Tiger Woods days, around 06 I believe? Before Lidar and all that. I have scans of the yardage book, and multiple photos of each hole from a member. I don't really have the files for the course anymore I don't think. Not sure if they are available anywhere for download and play. I still think I have the discs for TW06 somewhere...

Anyway, I played the beta that's out there last night, and it's a nice start, but seems like it needs a lot of refinement yet, and some things seem a bit off. The planting and textures also feel like they are in the early stages.

If this is still being developed I can't wait to see the final results. Let me know if you want any resources or if you already have a ton. If the project isn't ongoing, and it's started on PC, I wouldn't mind taking it over at some point and trying to finish it off!

[Violinguy69]

Love this course! Can't wait to see the finished project!

[slystyle12]

Pretty certain this got released & published under the name "Prairie Dunes CC"

[blueblood1995]

Aug 23, 2020 21:56:18 GMT -5 akick31 said:

I'm working on importing my 2019 TGC LiDAR Prairie Dunes and have released the alpha version under the pseudonym "Kansas Dunes (Alpha)" in 2k21. I would love honest feedback so I know what to improve. 

As a heads up, the greens are extremely difficult and I know they'll almost 100% be labeled as illegal for TGC Tours. This is fine by me, the greens at this course are notoriously difficult and why the course is so hard when it is such a short course. I can attest that the greens are accurate, not only from it being LiDAR data, but from having grown up playing there. However, if there's something way too extreme on that front, please let me know. 

As a summary for the course before you get into it, it's a Scottish links style course in the heart of Kansas. It was designed by Perry Maxwell originally as a 9 hole course in 1937. 20 years later, his son came in and built the other 9 holes. The original 9 holes are mixed throughout the front and back 9, but the most iconic holes were designed by him (2, 8, 17). It has hosted the 2002 U.S. Women's Open, the 2006 U.S. Senior Open, the 2014 NCAA Division I Men's Golf Championships and numerous Big 12 Championships. As I mentioned earlier, it is a short course at  6,759 yards, too short for the PGA to ever travel to the course. What makes it so difficult is it's sloping greens, it's almost as if an elephant was buried under a mound in the green in some places. It is consistently in the top 25 range on the Top 100 Courses rankings and a gorgeous course, with the signature scenery being the rolling dunes of grass (hence the name). 

Please play the course and give honest feedback on what can improve and errors that I may have missed when polishing the course after the import. You can find it under "Kansas Dunes (Alpha)", as I mentioned above. 

I look forward to hearing your feedback and hopefully can release the final product here soon!

Any chance you could post a few photos?

Thank you for your work.