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Post by CTLegacy on May 17, 2020 9:04:48 GMT -5
I think this would solve a lot of issues on the debate masters/pro clubs.
Adding 1 division below Korn Ferry and above CC-A. It can be called Developmental Tour or something like that. They can play in the CC-Pro society/tournament schedule or the KF society and tournaments. This would move up 200 masters club players out of CC leagues and 1 step closer to the pro tours. I think that would help A LOT creating more fairness in competition between Masters/Pro club users without complete segregation.
Just looking at last weeks final results, the 200th placed Masters club user in CC-Pro was -34 for 4 rounds and 15 players shot -50 or better, so there's plenty of competition there to support it.
What do you guys think?
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Post by searchingforthegains on May 17, 2020 11:19:37 GMT -5
this has already been talked about a few times, but wouldnt it make more sense to add one more flight of pro clubbers only? This way the top CC-A pro clubbers who have no desire to advance to the top tours (especially on xbox) have a place to play. Hopefully the new game will fix the differences between systems and this will be a moot point in a few months.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on May 17, 2020 14:29:24 GMT -5
I would be a bit optimistic, but honestly i really don't think we'll see some serious change in the swing system and realtive issues, in the next game.
It seems just some way to earn some money in the waiting for the next gen consoles, with just minor changes in those parts for the game actually too awful, like the ridicolous use of the PGA license, or the "vintage" customization of our avatars...i hope also for some improvement about the design editor..but i think we'll see nothing more than this.
I think we must wait the first next gen title to have some hope to have a more equal game between consoles.
Meanwhile, i totally agree that the best solution would be to create some kind of "PGA Tour" for Pro clubs Players only, with no promotions involved, even considering that i don't know if the situation will change at the end of the lockdown, but right now we have really A LOT of players in every flight, then another flight would be in any case useful.
The only problem to solve at that point could be how to allow promotions for those players of this new flight when/if, at some point, they would try to finally switch to Master Clubs. What they should do? To be demoted in CC-A then to gain 3 green marks?
Or maybe we could use the normal method of promo and demo mark in this new flight, but with manual moves only for promotions (if this it would be possible, of course)?
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Post by Doyley on May 17, 2020 14:39:33 GMT -5
There won't be any serious structural changes the the tours mid-season. We'll look to add a few flights between CC-G and CC-Z as it's the easiest/least complicated way to make room at this point.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on May 17, 2020 15:53:29 GMT -5
There won't be any serious structural changes the the tours mid-season. We'll look to add a few flights between CC-G and CC-Z as it's the easiest/least complicated way to make room at this point. I imagined it. But even if it could be possible to do it immediately, we would have too much confusion and work for you admins. No counting some people going mad cause any change mid-season (as it happened for the changes in the demo mark policy  ) Actually my thoughts were about the next season, i should specify it, my bad. Thank you for the answer, anyway  |
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Post by CTLegacy on May 17, 2020 19:59:00 GMT -5
There won't be any serious structural changes the the tours mid-season. We'll look to add a few flights between CC-G and CC-Z as it's the easiest/least complicated way to make room at this point. Yeah just some food for thought really. Adding the lower ones now makes sense because it is overflowing. But for the future I think 1 more flight of Masters clubs only would help out a lot. I am seeing great scores from Masters clubs players and they are in CC-D when it seems they could easily place high in CC-A consistently. |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on May 18, 2020 15:23:01 GMT -5
There won't be any serious structural changes the the tours mid-season. We'll look to add a few flights between CC-G and CC-Z as it's the easiest/least complicated way to make room at this point. Yeah just some food for thought really. Adding the lower ones now makes sense because it is overflowing. But for the future I think 1 more flight of Masters clubs only would help out a lot. I am seeing great scores from Masters clubs players and they are in CC-D when it seems they could easily place high in CC-A consistently. About this, i believe the problem is "structural" in some way, cause Cc-Pro in fact are fligths built having in mind mainly Pro Clubs players. Who use Master Clubs in CC-D, or B etc..knows (or should to know) perfectly that he will play against a lot of players with no issues at all about super sensitive controllers, random veryfast/slow swings, how to obtain constantly a straight line etc. And that easy conditions and the short Tees used almost every time, causes that the gain of distance with Master Clubs is not enough to equalize the field. Of course, i think is correct to use mainly easy conditions, cause CC-Pro is full of sunday players, it would be unfair to crank it up too much the tournaments, here. And, just to better explain of what we are talking about here, this week in CC-A, playing very easy conditions, i ended 30th as Master Clubs player (at -42, i played not too bad, just nothing exceptional), but 80th overall, and this cause in CC-A we have really strong Pro Clubs players who, on easy conditions, can easily score -12/-13 every round.. The situation is totally fair about promotions, thanks to the 15 promo mark for Master Clubs, but is really, really too hard to find a Master Clubs player as a winner (or a top 10, sometimes) on this flight. This just to explain that who use Master clubs on CC-Pro does it at "his own risk", because the gap on consistency is too big between those clubs. I perfectly understand that someone just prefer to use Master Clubs in every case, but is clear that these guys will probably struggle on standings. And they must accept it, cause is the result of a free choice.. For this reason, for example, i started in CC-C more or less one year ago using Pro Clubs, switching to Master Clubs only when i reached CC-A. Otherwise probably i would be still in CC-C, who knows. Considering all this, at least in my opinion, what we need is definitely not another flight for Master Clubs only. We already have 3 of these flights. I'm pretty sure that creating a 4th, we would just push the problem to another category below, soon or later. Furthermore, there is another thing to say..even if i think someone will disagree...and i'm sorry, but i believe that, especially after the great and very smart changes we had in the promotions policy in these 2 seasons, like the fast tracking for Master Clubs, the promo mark for 10 Master Clubs players and just 3 promo mark needed to be promoted, i'm pretty sure that the really good Master Club players in cc-d, c or b, simply cannot stay stucked in there for too long time. Who is stucked in these flights after 3-4 months, probably is simply not enough good/consistent to gain those promo mark playing with Master Clubs. I can't see any reason to give to them some other helps. This Tour is freaking competitive and the level is really, really high. And it grows every week. I'm totally fine if only the best players can reach the best flights. And if i'm not good enough to reaxh them, i'm fine with it. For all these reasons, i believe what we need to definitely solve the problem is a flight for only Pro Clubs players who don't like/want to play with Master Clubs (or using the hard conditions used on the best Pro Tours), cleaning a bit the field for who wants actually reach the best tours. I don't know exactly how to build this flight solving all the consequent little and big problems we should encounter about it, but i think is the only reasonable solution, at least until we'll have disparities between consoles (that actually is the real reason for all this situation). |
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Post by eastnortheast on May 19, 2020 11:05:53 GMT -5
I know that there was quite a long thread on this at the beginning of this season. There were some good ideas in there - in particular I remember someone made a powerpoint slide that had a tour progression of basically beginners clubs --> pro clubs --> masters clubs Over time, i have come to think this may be the best way - have three separate tours, one for each set of clubs. (I have no idea of the level of work that would be required to do this)  It is the first post on this thread: Should flights be adjusted by clubs? |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on May 20, 2020 10:08:26 GMT -5
I know that there was quite a long thread on this at the beginning of this season. There were some good ideas in there - in particular I remember someone made a powerpoint slide that had a tour progression of basically beginners clubs --> pro clubs --> masters clubs Over time, i have come to think this may be the best way - have three separate tours, one for each set of clubs. (I have no idea of the level of work that would be required to do this) It is the first post on this thread: Should flights be adjusted by clubs?The only issue with this idea (or to bettet say the main issue) is related with the fact this Tour uses "special societies" that HB offered to us, to guarantee the same conditions every round for everyone, the API etc..Unfortunally, to have 3 different tours would require a massive increase of these societies..and we simply miss them. This no counting the fact someone could be "philosophically" pro or against this idea |
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Post by zorbacles on May 21, 2020 5:28:52 GMT -5
this has already been talked about a few times, but wouldnt it make more sense to add one more flight of pro clubbers only? This way the top CC-A pro clubbers who have no desire to advance to the top tours (especially on xbox) have a place to play. Hopefully the new game will fix the differences between systems and this will be a moot point in a few months. I agree with this. CCA is topped out with pro clubbers that don't want to move to KF. Need an extra tour for the top pro clubbers only. I suggest the Asian tour. Or the Australian PGA |
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Post by eastnortheast on May 22, 2020 6:35:34 GMT -5
I know that there was quite a long thread on this at the beginning of this season. There were some good ideas in there - in particular I remember someone made a powerpoint slide that had a tour progression of basically beginners clubs --> pro clubs --> masters clubs Over time, i have come to think this may be the best way - have three separate tours, one for each set of clubs. (I have no idea of the level of work that would be required to do this) It is the first post on this thread: Should flights be adjusted by clubs?The only issue with this idea (or to bettet say the main issue) is related with the fact this Tour uses "special societies" that HB offered to us, to guarantee the same conditions every round for everyone, the API etc..Unfortunally, to have 3 different tours would require a massive increase of these societies..and we simply miss them. This no counting the fact someone could be "philosophically" pro or against this idea I am not sure it would. I believe that right now there are the following societies PGA Euro Korn Ferry CC-Pro CC-AM Beginners Club Tour Special Events True Sim I could see PGA, Euro, and Korn Ferry combining into one society. Do each of these need to play on a different course? Have these three play on the same course. The number of societies would then be PGA/Euro/Korn Ferry Masters (with all the flights) Pro (with all the flights) Beginners (with all the flights) Special Events True Sim You could possibly break down the Masters into two societies (Masters - A and Masters -B) and the same for Pro clubs, but I dont see the number of societies being an obstacle. |
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Post by CTLegacy on May 22, 2020 7:37:46 GMT -5
this has already been talked about a few times, but wouldnt it make more sense to add one more flight of pro clubbers only? This way the top CC-A pro clubbers who have no desire to advance to the top tours (especially on xbox) have a place to play. Hopefully the new game will fix the differences between systems and this will be a moot point in a few months. I agree with this. CCA is topped out with pro clubbers that don't want to move to KF. Need an extra tour for the top pro clubbers only. I suggest the Asian tour. Or the Australian PGA I disagree. There are only 2 Pro club users in CC-A that have 2 promo marks. No one even has 3 Promo marks, let alone the 5 required to be promoted and then deny that promotion. Now there are a lot of Pro users that have no wish to move into KF if they had the choice and that's fine. Playing on PC I don't think I could ever do it either. I mean I could try but it would only last a few weeks lol However, there are hundreds of Masters clubs users in the CC flights that would love the opportunity to move up and play better competition. They are tired of playing against Pro club users so adding 1 more flight of Masters only would take the top 150-200 Masters club users out of CC flights and give them a more even playing field. This achieves more fairness across the board without completely segregating all players based on what clubs they use. Now it's been mentioned several times they aren't making any massive changes mid-season but it's something to think about next season and for the new game where there will certainly be another large influx of players here on TGC Tours. 3 flights of Masters clubs only compared to what will be 10 flights of Challenge Circuit. It would only make sense to add 1 even 2 more Masters only flights in the future. |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on May 22, 2020 8:49:34 GMT -5
The only issue with this idea (or to bettet say the main issue) is related with the fact this Tour uses "special societies" that HB offered to us, to guarantee the same conditions every round for everyone, the API etc..Unfortunally, to have 3 different tours would require a massive increase of these societies..and we simply miss them. This no counting the fact someone could be "philosophically" pro or against this idea I am not sure it would. I believe that right now there are the following societies PGA Euro Korn Ferry CC-Pro CC-AM Beginners Club Tour Special Events True Sim I could see PGA, Euro, and Korn Ferry combining into one society. Do each of these need to play on a different course? Have these three play on the same course. The number of societies would then be PGA/Euro/Korn Ferry Masters (with all the flights) Pro (with all the flights) Beginners (with all the flights) Special Events True Sim You could possibly break down the Masters into two societies (Masters - A and Masters -B) and the same for Pro clubs, but I dont see the number of societies being an obstacle. Sorry but, personally, i couldn't disagree more with this idea. Really. And i think that yes, each of these Tours needs (and deserves) to play on a different course. Every week. With different conditions to offer different challenges. This is simply the core of the competition, here. What could ever be the sense, or even the realism, assuming that a PGA Tour player plays the same course in the same condition of who plays in the Euro or the Korn Freak? And, just to make a fast example about why is so important to have 3 different Pro Tours...I play with Master Clubs. In CC-A, right now. I definitely don't like this flight, at all, because to reach a top 10 i should need every week a score that would be good to win almost every week in other CC flights. Last week, after a bit better than average tournament (-42) on easy conditions, i ended 30th between Master Clubs players, but 80th overall!! Is simply crazy. But i must admit i wouldn't enjoy at all the idea to play in the PGA Tour right now, for...well, various reasons. But at the same time, the idea to reach the Korn Freaks Tour is very exciting, cause i think it would be perfect for me, right now..as far as things are, at least. Is important and useful to have 3 different Pro Tours, with Korn Freaks and Euro Tour that offers different, increasing difficulties to the players..to prepare them to the best level of the game. But above all this, i think we need just to fix a little issue, not to make revolutions. The fact is simply that CC-A is,right now, the only flight in which the situation is "unfair", but (i think is important to puntualize it) only about the final standings of every tournament, cause the promotions system it works almost perfectly now, with the changes/improvements made in the last year. We need simply a solution for all those pro clubs players who don't wants absolutely to play with Master Clubs but that are actually too strong to play in cc-pro, no forcing them to play the game in a way they dislike..but, at the same time, no forcing who enjoy to play with Master Clubs to get unbelievable scores simply to reach a top 25. Nothing more, nothing less. As a side point, we must remember that all this problem is not created by the Tour itself, but only by a stupid flaw of the game. If Master Clubs players (mainly PC and XBox players) could play without those 2/4 random veryfast/slow swing they suffers every round, there would be probably no need of any change at all. If in the next game things should be fixed (i'm not optimistic but...), probably we would be perfect as we are right now. |
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Post by ErixonStone on May 22, 2020 18:17:21 GMT -5
However, there are hundreds of Masters clubs users in the CC flights that would love the opportunity to move up and play better competition. They are tired of playing against Pro club users so adding 1 more flight of Masters only would take the top 150-200 Masters club users out of CC flights and give them a more even playing field. A few things, regarding the Challenge Circuit: Most importantly, players using Master Clubs are competing for promotion marks only against other players using Master Clubs. With respect to promotion marks, if you're using Master Clubs, then Pro-Club users do not matter to you. This is good. Second most importantly, players using Master Clubs are, indeed, competing with Pro-Club users in order to avoid demotion marks. I think this should change. I hope that there can be entirely separate leaderboards for Master and Pro club users, so that Master-Club winners could earn trophies and Pro Club winners could earn trophies separately. If club set is lockable, then I would like to see Master Clubs and Pro Clubs divided into separate societies so that course selection could be catered to users of that club set. Don't know if that's going to be possible in the new game. |
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Post by CTLegacy on May 22, 2020 21:59:51 GMT -5
However, there are hundreds of Masters clubs users in the CC flights that would love the opportunity to move up and play better competition. They are tired of playing against Pro club users so adding 1 more flight of Masters only would take the top 150-200 Masters club users out of CC flights and give them a more even playing field. A few things, regarding the Challenge Circuit: Most importantly, players using Master Clubs are competing for promotion marks only against other players using Master Clubs. With respect to promotion marks, if you're using Master Clubs, then Pro-Club users do not matter to you. This is good. Second most importantly, players using Master Clubs are, indeed, competing with Pro-Club users in order to avoid demotion marks. I think this should change. I hope that there can be entirely separate leaderboards for Master and Pro club users, so that Master-Club winners could earn trophies and Pro Club winners could earn trophies separately. If club set is lockable, then I would like to see Master Clubs and Pro Clubs divided into separate societies so that course selection could be catered to users of that club set. Don't know if that's going to be possible in the new game. Exactly, yeah I don't think they should segregate too much. But just the way the game is right now it's such an advantage to play masters on PS4. I'll have to do a breakdown of types of club users and what platform each are using. I'm sure they are taking all the feedback and will figure out some better way to make it fair across the board. It's just on the back burner for now I assume with everything else going on, a massive influx of new players, and a new game releasing in 3 months. Hopefully they devise a solid plan for season 7 on 2K21. Going to be even MORE players coming into here after that drops. |
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