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Post by jivesinator on Apr 30, 2020 16:23:17 GMT -5
I’m intrigued as to why you should limit the course to not playing in all conditions. A good course should play well in all conditions. Bizarre. Either way, I’ll play through twice. Firstly - in very fast conditions and secondly in the recommended conditions. Well, there's a couple reasons. First is, as Thomas said, the contest allowed me to set conditions for the tournament that it would host; the argument of allowing max speed greens to be playable should also consider that plenty of holes in the contest are designed to play in specific wind conditions and would be difficult to unplayable in max headwinds. The major contest has produced some of the hardest courses yet and it is quite challenging to design with every condition in mind while also designing for players that can shoot -50s in a four day tournament at Augusta. Second, in real-life course design sites are always different and plenty of real-life courses aren't designed to support certain conditions (think round 3 at the '18 US Open at Shinnecock or the conditions throughout the '15 US Open at Chambers Bay) and forcing a course to use those conditions will take away a lot of choices for a course's playability. Basically, long story short is that I thought more would have been lost to use 187 greens and I specifically designed the course (especially the greens) to play at 163 max with that in mind. |
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Post by b101 on May 1, 2020 2:13:35 GMT -5
Yeah, not all greens should play to 187 - that's a TGC-ism. Think of putting St Andrews at max on the stimp for a good real life reason why not... There's also the fact that you would have a prevailing wind direction in real life, so would build holes around that anyway.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2020 5:36:47 GMT -5
Fair enough. St. Andrews is probably medium compared to real life’s very fast Oakmont I guess. However, there’s five settings in the game. Why limit the players’ option? Oh well. Shot -2 in rounds 1 and 2 TST style in very fast conditions and had a ball. Great course. Loved the par-4 reminiscent of Cabot Cliffs.
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Post by b101 on May 1, 2020 6:50:46 GMT -5
Fair enough. St. Andrews is probably medium compared to real life’s very fast Oakmont I guess. However, there’s five settings in the game. Why limit the players’ option? Oh well. Shot -2 in rounds 1 and 2 TST style in very fast conditions and had a ball. Great course. Loved the par-4 reminiscent of Cabot Cliffs. But you can change it? It’s just not advised... As Jives says, feel free to do so but don’t blame him for illegal pins etc. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2020 7:01:08 GMT -5
Fair enough. St. Andrews is probably medium compared to real life’s very fast Oakmont I guess. However, there’s five settings in the game. Why limit the players’ option? Oh well. Shot -2 in rounds 1 and 2 TST style in very fast conditions and had a ball. Great course. Loved the par-4 reminiscent of Cabot Cliffs. But you can change it? It’s just not advised... As Jives says, feel free to do so but don’t blame him for illegal pins etc. I guess so. However, if the pins are suitable for very fast then they’d be suitable for all green speeds and everyone is happy. I don’t understand pinning it for moderate speeds when you could pin it for very fast and people could play the course in all speeds. Having said, the pins worked pretty well first two rounds in very fast. Probably one or two iffy ones but the course was still a delight. Anywho, sorry to derail the thread. The course is fantastic. |
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Post by b101 on May 1, 2020 8:03:46 GMT -5
But you can change it? It’s just not advised... As Jives says, feel free to do so but don’t blame him for illegal pins etc. I guess so. However, if the pins are suitable for very fast then they’d be suitable for all green speeds and everyone is happy. I don’t understand pinning it for moderate speeds when you could pin it for very fast and people could play the course in all speeds. Having said, the pins worked pretty well first two rounds in very fast. Probably one or two iffy ones but the course was still a delight. Anywho, sorry to derail the thread. The course is fantastic. Simply: you can have bigger, bolder contours on slower greens, because they won't play like pinball machines. Bit of a generalisation, but that's it in a nutshell. |
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Post by jivesinator on May 1, 2020 17:50:20 GMT -5
I guess so. However, if the pins are suitable for very fast then they’d be suitable for all green speeds and everyone is happy. I don’t understand pinning it for moderate speeds when you could pin it for very fast and people could play the course in all speeds. Having said, the pins worked pretty well first two rounds in very fast. Probably one or two iffy ones but the course was still a delight. Anywho, sorry to derail the thread. The course is fantastic. Simply: you can have bigger, bolder contours on slower greens, because they won't play like pinball machines. Bit of a generalisation, but that's it in a nutshell. Nail on the head, Ben. The defense on Mammadrouit's greens was intended to be the sloping so I focused primarily on integrating that into playability as opposed to speed. In fact, though I had some consideration early on to have the default at high 160s/low 170s, the default speed of high 150s and max speed of 163 was something I decided on fairly early in the whole process, maybe about two weeks in or so. I have seen one or two playthroughs with 187 greens and the greens actually played a lot better than I thought they would, and I can't think of a reason why PGA players wouldn't still score really well with those conditions. The main concerns on playability I have on 187 are that the greens with the most movement had hole placements that would be impossible to hold from a higher shelf on 187 and would effectively force a two-putt unless the player hits the dead center of the cup (the pins on 15 are a good example) and that the very firm and very fast combo makes some approach shots (pin 3 on hole 2, pin 4 on hole 8, pin 4 on hole 16 to name a few) close to inaccessible, which again likely forces an extra shot and goes against the purpose of the hole designs. And oswinner asking a legitimate question is not derailing the thread. Glad to hear you're enjoying it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2020 7:43:58 GMT -5
Really enjoying the course. Played through it twice in TST style.
US OPEN CONDITIONS
(Very Firm/Very Fast with moderate wind in each direction N, E, S, W)
70/70/69/75 (-4)
And then played it again in the exact same conditions with moderate speed greens instead...
65/68/67/72 (-16)
16 in round 4 is tough. Think I four-putted it even in moderate conditions. Prudent play is either to miss left or layup before the green methinks. Hitting the green right of the flag is very punishing.
Will play through a third time over the next few days in Olympic conditions.
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Post by champ39 on May 5, 2020 15:39:18 GMT -5
Cracking links course, I somehow managed to bag 3 eagles on pin 3 (with your specified conditions). 
This one was my fav though (on hole #6)....keep rolling!!!!
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Post by meyo on May 5, 2020 17:15:22 GMT -5
Very nice course john, GL in the contest bud
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Post by jivesinator on Sept 13, 2020 18:56:00 GMT -5
Ported and published in 2K21. Some tees/pins moved around, reworked visuals in numerous places and a rework on the tee shot on 18, but everything else is pretty much the same.
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Post by blueblood1995 on Sept 13, 2020 22:18:19 GMT -5
A most fortuitous superbly judged HiO on the 15th here, enjoyed the round. Very linksy greens. I Congrats on the ace, that shot was just about perfection! Funny thing with 15 is I had my only ace during playtesting there, I was multipinning and the first shot I had at pin 2 went in... Needless to say pin 2 did not move from that spot Maybe? Yes sir! |
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Post by jivesinator on Mar 27, 2021 14:22:00 GMT -5
As the only best solo course I have published in 2K21, this course is my representation in Crazycanuck1985 's Ultimate Designer Showdown. Not like it's gonna go far, but go out and play it if you haven't and (maybe) toss a vote my way. I'm up against SluggieLoucks ' Rubicon, so also play that and vote for his if you like it more. |
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Post by cd06 on Mar 27, 2021 14:34:11 GMT -5
good luck Jives - I mean, I don't care what happens in voting but your course looks great so I'd better play it tomorrow. Also, looking forward to the world cup course  |
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