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Post by csugolfer60 on Apr 1, 2020 9:20:36 GMT -5
For anyone who would like to give the 4-round Major conditions a crack in a tournament environment, I've set up an open event in the Vista Golf Design society that I'd welcome you to give a try. I'd be grateful if I could see some of the better players give this 4-rounder a crack and see what kind of scores they come up with.
Thanks for all the kind words, everyone. This was a pleasure to design and I'm glad to see so many enjoying the challenge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 9:26:03 GMT -5
Third and final play-through (until it gets put on the TST, fingers crossed rob4590). Really good challenging course from the whites in TST conditions. Tournament 1 US Open conditions (Very Firm / Very Fast) 71/71/73/73 (E) Tournament 2 Members conditions (Moderate / Moderate) 72/67/64/70 (-15) Tournament 3 US Open conditions (Very Firm / Very Fast) 72/67/74/68 (-7) Pleasure playing the course. Enjoy the crazy long major course all you crazy fools. Cheers.
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Post by rob4590 on Apr 1, 2020 11:43:43 GMT -5
Third and final play-through (until it gets put on the TST, fingers crossed rob4590 ). Really good challenging course from the whites in TST conditions. Tournament 1 US Open conditions (Very Firm / Very Fast) 71/71/73/73 (E) Tournament 2 Members conditions (Moderate / Moderate) 72/67/64/70 (-15) Tournament 3 US Open conditions (Very Firm / Very Fast) 72/67/74/68 (-7) Pleasure playing the course. Enjoy the crazy long major course all you crazy fools. Cheers.
Potential PGA Championship venue Luke?
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Apr 1, 2020 15:45:45 GMT -5
Looks stunning (as per)
Members version is a good test of every part of your game. Ball striking, decision making, putting, short game if you miss. Could be set up to be difficult with grids and would certainly be tough (but fair) without them.
Major version is a test of one skill and one skill only. Lag putting from 65/70 feet after your ball rolls away from the pin to the same spot whether you're bang on line or 25 yards off line. I just played Pin 3 and there was maybe 6-7 pins you could access with the perfect shot. The rest were all as previously described, or tucked away so the "sensible" play was to play for a chip. Awful playability in comparison to the other version.
I think some people take the view that anything on which people struggle to break 70 is "a challenge". I tend to think if the greens are such that there's no differential between a good shot and an average one, it defeats the object. It's not really a test of ball strking or strategy if you physically can't get it within 30 feet.
But i fully expect to see the major version on the PGA at some point so i'll start practicing my 75 footers
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Post by csugolfer60 on Apr 1, 2020 15:53:45 GMT -5
Looks stunning (as per)
Members version is a good test of every part of your game. Ball striking, decision making, putting, short game if you miss. Could be set up to be difficult with grids and would certainly be tough (but fair) without them.
Major version is a test of one skill and one skill only. Lag putting from 65/70 feet after your ball rolls away from the pin to the same spot whether you're bang on line or 25 yards off line. I just played Pin 3 and there was maybe 6-7 pins you could access with the perfect shot. The rest were all as previously described, or tucked away so the "sensible" play was to play for a chip. Awful playability in comparison to the other version.
I think some people take the view that anything on which people struggle to break 70 is "a challenge". I tend to think if the greens are such that there's no differential between a good shot and an average one, it defeats the object. It's not really a test of ball strking or strategy if you physically can't get it within 30 feet
But i fully expect to see the major version on the PGA at some point so i'll start practicing my 75 footers
I'm not sure what shots you're referring to where missing by 25 yards has the same result as a perfect shot. Could you tell me which shot you're looking at and I'll post a video showing how to properly play it?
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Apr 1, 2020 17:23:43 GMT -5
Looks stunning (as per)
Members version is a good test of every part of your game. Ball striking, decision making, putting, short game if you miss. Could be set up to be difficult with grids and would certainly be tough (but fair) without them.
Major version is a test of one skill and one skill only. Lag putting from 65/70 feet after your ball rolls away from the pin to the same spot whether you're bang on line or 25 yards off line. I just played Pin 3 and there was maybe 6-7 pins you could access with the perfect shot. The rest were all as previously described, or tucked away so the "sensible" play was to play for a chip. Awful playability in comparison to the other version.
I think some people take the view that anything on which people struggle to break 70 is "a challenge". I tend to think if the greens are such that there's no differential between a good shot and an average one, it defeats the object. It's not really a test of ball strking or strategy if you physically can't get it within 30 feet
But i fully expect to see the major version on the PGA at some point so i'll start practicing my 75 footers
I'm not sure what shots you're referring to where missing by 25 yards has the same result as a perfect shot. Could you tell me which shot you're looking at and I'll post a video showing how to properly play it?
Here's an example of the point i'm making. No 8 in R3, 220 odd yards out.
You want me to play it somewhere between points A & B, lag putt it up the hill and make a par, right? In a tournament situation that's probably what i would try and do.
My point is, i could land it ANYWHERE from the very edge of the bunker (A) to where i've scrawled (B), and i would wind up in pretty much exactly the same place over on the right hand side. In firm/fast condtions there is no way to hold it on the upper tier. There's no shot i can hit to give myself a 20 footer. I'll be 50+ feet away whichever bit of the green i hit. It's not a test of ball striking if i can hit it anywhere from point A to just to the right of B (10-15 yards) and end up with roughly the same putt. I admit 25 yards was an exaggeration.
Secondary point. My best/only chance of a birdie is actually to try and hit point (C), or just left of it. It's a downslope so i'd roll off the back of the green and try and chip it in. That's what a hell of a lot of PGA players would do.
Pin at No 1 in R3 is another good eaxmple of this. Tucked away on the right hand side with a green that slopes away in all directions. The choice is a 60 foot putt from the fat bit of the green or flying the pin and having a 5 yard chip back up the hill.
You tell me but i'm assuming you want people to play it properly and not deliberately miss greens?
If the sole aim of the major version was to make people struggle to make par - mission accomplished. But by making it so long with pins that are literally impossible to get at whatever shot you hit you actually take away a lot of the challenge. In TGC 2019 it's not difficult to hit a 10 yard space. A tournament would be a contest of who could make the most short chips and lag putt best from 50 feet.
Like i said, i like the standard version of the course. You could set it up in such a way to provide a reasonable challenge to the best players IMO. Par still a good score on some holes, but enough birdie chances to entice people to go for a few shots. Winning score much lower, but a better test of every part of peoples game and a bit more enjoyment for us mere mortals aswell.
All just opinions. Perhaps we just disagree on what the word "challenge" means. Doesn't mean i don't know how i am supposed to navigate your courses (6th @ Susquehannock last year, all i did was play away from the pins) or that i don't appreciate them. I do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 17:28:53 GMT -5
Excellent, will try the major version on beginner clubs with medium wind like we're doing at Susquehannock in my society over the next 2 days. Anyway we can twist your arm into porting over The Legacy at Cape Point so we can play that too?
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Post by csugolfer60 on Apr 1, 2020 18:10:28 GMT -5
My intended approaches on both holes - leaves about 40 feet uphill on each.
These are two of the toughest pins for all 4 rounds to get near.
If players want to take a chance from the back bunker, more power to them, but an uphill putt from 40 feet is probably as good as you will do on these two holes. However, you can definitely hold the green and have a makeable birdie putt on both. I also suck a big one at this game, so I'm sure PGA guys will play these much better than I do.
You'll have some help holding the green with the Major conditions on hole 1, and you'll have to draw the ball more on 8 in Major conditions, but essentially the same shots.
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Post by csugolfer60 on Apr 1, 2020 18:13:00 GMT -5
Excellent, will try the major version on beginner clubs with medium wind like we're doing at Susquehannock in my society over the next 2 days. Anyway we can twist your arm into porting over The Legacy at Cape Point so we can play that too?
That would be a hell of a project to undertake. You have me intrigued
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 18:22:19 GMT -5
Excellent, will try the major version on beginner clubs with medium wind like we're doing at Susquehannock in my society over the next 2 days. Anyway we can twist your arm into porting over The Legacy at Cape Point so we can play that too?
That would be a hell of a project to undertake. You have me intrigued Damn, I only meant do an import from TGC1 to TGC2 to TGC19.........but if it's got you out of retirement after 1 day then who am I to say no I was talking to SweetTeeBag the other week when I was setting up my 52 course schedule for the Tough Beginner Club Tour and we were saying we wished we had Legacy and SmokinPirates Harbour Pointe in the game. Just a shame this version doesn't have the TGC1 ice rink green settings. Thanks for all the enjoyment you've given us over the years though if you do stay in retirement.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 0:12:27 GMT -5
Threw it away the last few holes and 3 putted the back 9 par 5. Very enjoyable with beginner clubs on the major version. Heres the video if you’re interested. The game crashed after the 1st hole so thats why its missing. Approach shot on the 1st was pin high 8 feet right of the cup.
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Post by MyGolfGameSucks on Apr 2, 2020 2:28:25 GMT -5
Not even half way into the publishing window.................and we have a winner.... This course is one of the best and most stunning courses in the game -- IMO
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Post by mvpmanatee on Apr 9, 2020 17:09:25 GMT -5
Great course Dario! Really enjoyed every shot out there.
Especially enjoyed the 16th: handicap 1 huh?
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