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Post by ezzinomilonga on Feb 15, 2020 11:16:01 GMT -5
Well..so, after more than 2 months of forced inactivity, 3 weeks ago i found again a pc where to play. Some of you could know that was my intention to try to learn how to design courses. Unfortunally, i wasted these months with that stupid real life..but i started again to study (both architecture and editor) with all the intention to create a course. And, the most difficult thing, to learn how to do it properly. Unfortunally, things goes still really, really slow, cause i have not so much time and cause, above all, the internet connection here often dies with no reason. For hours. But i used this time drawing courses on paper. Curing the layout, above all. In this way i created lot of holes and at least 5 complete layouts..and i pretty proud of some of them but i decided is too soon to go straight for them, cause i already kmow that my first course will be not good at all, probably. So i was looking for something interesting enough to be played, but not too long as a full 18 holes course is. Then my first obvious idea was to create a 9 holes par 3 courses, but i think it would be more useful to work also on fairways and bigger distancies, as a first time, so i decided to create a simple layout of 9 holes. I started to draw it on paper, but then the whole thing started to change, evolving in something quite different. After days of work, now is complete and i like this idea enough to share it, before to start to work on it, looking for advices and, above all, if for you more experienced designers my idea is actually possible to realize. This is the plan : * The course will be made by 11 holes. 7 holes shares fairways with other holes (so hole 1 shared fairway with hole 18, hole 2 with hole 16, hole 4 with 15, hole 6 with 13, hole 7 with 12, hole 8 with hole 11 (2 par 3s), hole 9 with 10), but with different tees and greens. * Hole 5 is a par 4 hole, played just one time. * Holes 3, 14 and 17 are par 3 holes, played just one time. * The second nine are not exactly the reverse of the first nine, regarding both par and routing. * The course will be a par 70 (5 par 3s, 3 par 5s). * To optimize the land and to obtain playability, strategy and some potentially drivable par 4, i will use a good number of dogleg. This penalize a bit the variety of the course, but i'm confident the layout will stay interesting, offering A LOT of risk&reward holes. * The course will be generally with minimal elevation changes, with the exception of 3, maybe 5 holes. * The course will be surrounded massively by water (13-16 holes, probably). * Trees will be placed accordingly, but only for strategic purposes, cause i would prefere to have open space, generally speaking. * I still have not idea of the theme to use for this course, i still need to check carrfully all the options and all the pro/cons of every choice. Anyway, the style of the course should be near to the PGA National, or the german Green Eagle, but details are still far from my mind, to be honest. I suppose i'll decide while i'll work on it. * There will be no template holes, probably, cause i realized that to shape good trustable greens is the most difficult thing, for me, while i do practice, so i prefer to concentrate about all the other things i need to learn, in this first try. * The only exception could be (actually IS, at least right now) a Biarritz hole on the 17. But if i should realize i'm still not good enough to do it properly, i'll quit the idea. But, if i'll do it, my intention is to create it "as intended" originally : a very long hole that requires a long wood, if not a driver for the most distant pins. * There will be just 3 tees (one for kind of clubs) and 4 pins. * This course should be considered in every case just as some kind of experiment, cause i'm more interested about the idea to use every tool, trying to learn and to understand exactly how and where to use it in future, than about the final result. These are my intentions. I have not idea if i'll be good enough to do everytying in the right way, or when i could ever finish it, but for sure i'll try. If someone have questions, doubts or advices, i would be happy to hear and to answer. Good week-end, guys p.s. : later, i'll color my design on paper of the layout and i'll post as a pic, just to offer a "visual report" of my intentions, if someone could be interested to this kind of "unusual" routing.
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Post by LKeet6 on Feb 15, 2020 12:27:32 GMT -5
Ooh exciting! (And ridiculously overcomplicated )
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Feb 15, 2020 13:16:56 GMT -5
Ooh exciting! (And ridiculously overcomplicated ) 😞 do you think so? I know mate, i know. But i swear i tried, to design simple 9 holes courses, but the truth is that simply i really don't like that format. Anyway, is not so complicated, after you find a possible, reliable ans entertaining (i hope so) routing. The real difficulty has been this..it required seriously 4-5 days of tries and headaches. But i'm satisfied now..it looks i can have 18 holes fully working, in a really smaller portion of ground..that was my goal as my first work. So i can have more time to work on little details about sculpting, to use buildings, cartpaths, how to have nice looking ponds, maybe a little waterfall..to have a nice clubhouse..all the stuff like this... in short, i wish to test all the little things i could need to use in future. Honestly i'm not fully sure if my idea will work flawlessly, but i think it could, if i'm good enough to do everything. Will see
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Feb 21, 2020 12:00:37 GMT -5
I share two pics. One of the routing, one of the yardage etc. I don't know if is clear, i hope so. Anyway, things are going on in a quite satisfying way also in the "real" process of design. Between yesterday and today i routed almost every hole. I miss just the last 2 par 3s (hole 14 and 17) and 9&10 holes, but i hope to finish tomorrow. Then i will start with the real work I'm happy cause i was really concerned about to learn how to use splines, but after some study it seems i'm going to understand almost everything. I'm really happy also cause the trick with the transitions explained by mayday and meyo it works flawlessly. And..well. When i'll have something to ask..i'll do. About the course, i still don't know if and how much fairway bunkers i'll use. The shape of greens is the only thing meaningless, cause i want to see the course, before to decide. About the rest, i measured everything while i was drawing the course on paper..and still i'm measuring everything, using a lot the measure spots. This thing is paying some serious dividend : the course in the editor is routed exactly as it was on paper. Is a great result, considering i'm awful in every graphic art I still must create some elevation changes, all the ponds, all the planting..in short, i did still nothing. But i'm working. So..will see.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Feb 21, 2020 12:20:22 GMT -5
FORE!!!
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Feb 25, 2020 8:06:18 GMT -5
Just some quick update. A pair of days ago i finished with the routing of the course. I'm really satisfied, cause it looks almost exactly as it is on paper and, most important thing, it seems i understood really well how works both splines and transitions. I was a bit concerned about both things, so i'm really happy, seriously. I also flattened everything, before to start. And deleted almost every autogenerated tree. I know it was probably better (or easier, at least) to keep the ground a bit "auto" elevated, but if the work on this course is supposed to be important to learn how manage the editor, i decided it would be more useful to sculpt EVERYTHING by myself..and is what i'm doing. So said, every hole is already created, with the first tee and pin..so now i'm starting to create all the water (and is a lot : ponds, creeks, probably some little fall (just to learn how to use every tool)), but before i'm sculpting and planting on hole 1. I think this work will take a lot of time, but is important to learn and to do it right now. What else...ah, well, finally i decided to use the countryside theme for this one. Is not written on stone and i still should decide what texture to use, how many bunkers and where to place them..in short, i did nothing. I still have not even just a name, for this course..but right now i really don't care. Later today i'll post some pic from above of the course, to share the routing..and probably also the work on hole 1 (if i should be satisfied about it), looking for some advice and critic. The only thing i know, is that i know nothing. I'm not even sure if i'm doing everything in the right and proper order, but well, i'll learn!
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Feb 25, 2020 12:24:13 GMT -5
The first picture shows the routing. I still must fix lot of lines on fairways, to create all the water, clubhouse, parking, cartpaths and..well..everything. I'll do, slowly. The second pic shows the back of the drivable green of hole 1 and the first shadow of a future Biarritz hole (the 17). I don't know if i'm doing something wrong, i don't like the visual effect on both the elevated green, i'm not so sure i'll be able to fix, i don't know if there is a way to don't see the rocks, i'll try. In the back of the pics is visible how much all the rest of the course is still totally flat. This will be a long, long journey.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Mar 3, 2020 8:22:49 GMT -5
Sorry guys, but i need some help. I have lot of questions, actually, cause there are things i can't understand, i think. For example, there is some way or trick to obtain that an elevated portion of terrain falls exactly perpendicular (more or less, of course) to the ground below? And there is some way to avoid that ugly portion of rocky ground between the rough and the water? Is not possible to obtain a totally green surface near the water? Furthermore, i still must create cartpaths, but before to start i wish to know if is possible to use different surfaces or if only one is available (i wish to create a "normal" cartpath but also other little surfaces, for a garden and for other things). If i want to create a long wall, i must select and place properly every single piece of wall or there is a way to abtain longer streaks? Why, when i try to playtest some hole, the game never gives to me the driver but the 2 iron? I have more questions, but probably these are the most important, right now. Anyway..about the course, i'm slowly working on every hole. First nine holes are well designed and completed, about greens, fairways, bunkers, slopes, basic/strategic planting etc. After i'll complete the back nines, i'll start to work on all the details. I also decided to try to create a Redan (on hole 8)..and i must admit i'm pretty proud of the result. But above all, i'm happy cause i'm learning to use the blue brushes and splines way better that i could ever hope. If i could have more time available, i could be omptimistic about the end of this work, but the truth is that i have not idea of when i could ever finish. We'll see. (later i'll release some pic about my progress on this course) Edit : probably, about the second point (how to avoid the ugly portion of rocky ground between rough and water, i mean), suddenly some minute ago i understood my error. A newbie, stupid error. I started flattening everything.. and this was right, BUT i should use a more elevated ground, while i fixed it around 1 meter..less than a yard. This means that if i excave a bit, i find immediately some water. I should use more elevated terrain and THEN to create by myself every water surface, choosing the height and, in this way, easily to avoid the issue i have now. Well..lesson learned. Next time. Now i can simply find the best possible way to fix it. Probably i'll use a lot of plants and wall of rocks and wood. Stupid, stupid guy.
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Post by hoosierhoops24 on Mar 5, 2020 20:00:45 GMT -5
I share two pics. One of the routing, one of the yardage etc. I don't know if is clear, i hope so. Anyway, things are going on in a quite satisfying way also in the "real" process of design. Between yesterday and today i routed almost every hole. I miss just the last 2 par 3s (hole 14 and 17) and 9&10 holes, but i hope to finish tomorrow. Then i will start with the real work I'm happy cause i was really concerned about to learn how to use splines, but after some study it seems i'm going to understand almost everything. I'm really happy also cause the trick with the transitions explained by mayday and meyo it works flawlessly. And..well. When i'll have something to ask..i'll do. About the course, i still don't know if and how much fairway bunkers i'll use. The shape of greens is the only thing meaningless, cause i want to see the course, before to decide. About the rest, i measured everything while i was drawing the course on paper..and still i'm measuring everything, using a lot the measure spots. This thing is paying some serious dividend : the course in the editor is routed exactly as it was on paper. Is a great result, considering i'm awful in every graphic art I still must create some elevation changes, all the ponds, all the planting..in short, i did still nothing. But i'm working. So..will see. Love the drawings, Ezzino!
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Mar 6, 2020 5:41:28 GMT -5
Some update : I finished the basic work on every hole last week but, some day ago, looking at the result and considering my skills are not so bad as i imagined before to start, i decided that, even if i'm for sure not good enough to create a high quality course, it would be stupid don't work on templates, considering that they are something i'm studying about by months, so... i'll try and in some way then i'll learn from my mistakes (i hope so ). As a disciple of JoeGolfer, i'm trying also to learn how to make it BOLD, cause i think if i learn how to manage this, probably i could realize everything. The first pic is for my first Eden hole. Is inspired losely by the one at Shoreacres, but the big bunker at the back of the green (the Eden) is inspired by the one at Fishers Island. In the second and third pic there are hole 8 (Redan), hole 11 (Short) and hole 17 (Biarritz). I know they are not perfect, at all, but i must admit this result is a big surprise for me as a first attempt. I'm working also on a volcano green (hole 7), i like as it looks, but i must test it, before to decide if to implement it or not. Now i'll start to do all the rest (cartpaths, clubhouse & buildings, waterfalls, planting, retaining walls and..i mean..all the stuff that matters the most to have a good looking course). We will see.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Mar 6, 2020 6:17:36 GMT -5
Love the drawings, Ezzino![/quote] Thank you, mate I'm a disaster in every graphic art, but i really like to draw holes&courses..i have a big copybook full of courses that i know i'll never create In fact my idea is to learn how to create properly a course, then to learn how to use Lidar..and then i wish to create mainly real courses..and only when (and if) i'll find a really interesting idea for a fictional course (and if i'll be good enough to realize it), i'll work on it. This is the plan. Anyway, i'm really happy to learn, really. There are a lot of things i still don't understand about the editor..and i'm also very slow, but i like it!! About the rest, sadly i have really no time to play the game in these days, between the work on this course and the updating of the list, but i wish to restart to play in CC-A soon. You are ok?
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Post by hoosierhoops24 on Mar 6, 2020 8:11:13 GMT -5
Love the drawings, Ezzino! Thank you, mate I'm a disaster in every graphic art, but i really like to draw holes&courses..i have a big copybook full of courses that i know i'll never create In fact my idea is to learn how to create properly a course, then to learn how to use Lidar..and then i wish to create mainly real courses..and only when (and if) i'll find a really interesting idea for a fictional course (and if i'll be good enough to realize it), i'll work on it. This is the plan. Anyway, i'm really happy to learn, really. There are a lot of things i still don't understand about the editor..and i'm also very slow, but i like it!! About the rest, sadly i have really no time to play the game in these days, between the work on this course and the updating of the list, but i wish to restart to play in CC-A soon. You are ok? [/quote] Yes, I'm doing well. I've been trying to put as much time as possible into Austin Country Club and I have managed to play my CC-A rounds every week. Besides work, I am still working on my music here and there, but I also spend a lot of time working on my real golf game on the weekends. In addition to that, I'm a diehard Dallas Mavericks fan (NBA basketball) and never miss a game. As if that's not enough, I'm a single dad with 2 boys at home that live with me full time. All told I stay pretty busy most of the time. Keep up the great work on your course. It takes awhile to learn the designer but I'm sure you'll get the hang of it quickly. I'm anxious to see how things turn out for you.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Mar 15, 2020 8:31:06 GMT -5
Some fast update. I have still a lot of work to do, actually all the planting, almost every tee shot and pin position and, in short, all those things needed to obtain a decent looking course. But i finished every hole in terms of architecture, bunker position and shape, i want just to rebuild a bunch of fairways and to polish transitions and borders. I changed the green of holes 3, 1 (now it will be a double green, one elevated, the other no) and 7 (now it will be a volcano green, i need just to work on the details, but i like the idea, so it will stay) and i transformed also hole 13 to honor Tillinghast and his great par 5 hole 4 at Bethpage Black. I'm also working on the clubhouse and all the space near the first tee. In this pic, there is my experiment on a patio with a waterpool. I used the roofs of 2 buildings to obtain it. Still unfinished but i like it. At his left there will be a multiteared practice green and tees for the short game. (Behind is possible to see also the new 2 greens of hole 1). This is the waterfalls complex, with the volcano green of hole 7. I still must complete and adjust all the rocks stuff, to build a bridge behind the 2 greens and..well, a lot of pther things. Although i did a lot of errors (and some of them is too late to adjust it) and i know it will be full of flaws, although i hate this editor sometimes, i must admit that i'm enjoying every second of this work. With the favt my onternet don't allows me to play, at least i can spend these weeks working on design.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Mar 19, 2020 11:24:09 GMT -5
Some update. 1) I found a name for the course. Nothing original, to be honest. It will be named "Trinacria Y&CC". To "honor" my country (Sicily) and, mainly, cause the course has actually the form of a triangle (Trinacria came from the ancient greek, it was the name they used to name Sicily at that time..And is also the name of a mithological woman with 3 legs and the head of a gorgon*, that is also the symbol of the Sicily. If i don't go crazy before the end, there is a chance i could try to realize this symbol with flowers near hole 18..will see..). * I don't know if "gorgon" actually exists in english. Is the woman with the head full of snakes, right? 2) Strictly about the course, i'm trying to follow the idea i had at the very start. I'm using this course to try almost everything i will need to know, soon or later, about the editor. I think this thing is the only one really important,cause i already know that as my first course..for sure this will not be a masterpiece. At least i'll use it as a good school for some next project. To help to reach this goal, i also decided to divide the course in 3 zones. For this reason, the group of holes nearest to the clubhouse (1, 9, 10, 18 plus 8, 11 and 17, that are 3 of the 4 template holes on par 3s, in the center of the course), will be realized in a parkland style, really well cured (or to better say, the most cured i can..and is not the same thing, i fear ), not necessarily naturally looking (i'll use lot of flowers, retaining walls, no random grass, plants, trees or rocks just to fill some space. I want to make it as if it should be a super exclusive golf club, paying attention to details and lot of eye's candies etc etc..) The second group of holes (4, 5, 7 and 12 for sure) will be more "essential" and also natural looking, with some flavour of links courses (few if not 0 trees, some fairway bunkers, ondulating terrains, less "maniacally cured" environment etc..) The third group (the remaining holes) will be probably some kind of compromise or, as for hole 13 (heavily inspirated by hole 4 at Bethpage Black as a sign of respect for Tillinghast), just some experiment. Obviously i'm aware that this choice will make my course probably not enough visually "consistent", but i believe it will be useful for my future courses, to try to menage a bit of everything..and to understand immediately what i need to improve the most. About the pics..well. The first is a view of the fairway of hole 1. For the start i wish to offer a visually stunning, redundand and coloured hole. It would represent quite well the spirit of my country To add interest and some drama, is a driveable par 4 (now with 2 separated greens, i disliked my first attempt). Is still not complete, but i'm satisfied about the result, right now. The attempt to recreate the Church Pews in the second pic is what i tried to do today for the new hole 4. Yesterday it was another driveable par 4, but in the end i preferred to change it in a strategic par 4 in which the risk&reward (offered by the Church Pews in the middle of the fairway and the water between the fairway and the green on the "short" side ) is about how much long will be the approach shot. Some side thought. 3) I noticed that i have some difficulty about planting. I mean..i find hard to visualize how to fill the space in certain points and situations. Everything i try, sometimes, it seems horrible. I suppose is a matter of have or not this gift. I definitely miss it, i already knew it..graphic arts are never been my bread. Is not an absurd problem..is just a matter of try and fail..but the fact i'm a maniac perfectionist it means A LOT of try and fail!! 4) I'm very happy about some idea i have..but often my ideas don't survive to the playtest..or to the limits i have using the editor. Is quite hard to let coincide what it works in my head with reality..for this reason i changed already a lot of things, looking at the original plan..and a lot probably i'll change before to finish it..but i think this thing is good. I know..i'm a maniac when i love something , but it seems this thing helps in golf (in both play and design) so i think that...yes, probably i'll end this course in the 2023 (or never?) but i'll learn a lot!! 5) Ah..I'm trying to create a pretty hard, challenging but (i hope!) fair course. There will be 3 tees, one per kind of clubs..and this will be mandatory, cause the stategy on the course is often strictly related with the distance / club used, no counting that a pair of holes would be simply unreachable with the wrong clubs. It will offer every kind of challenge a good player can expect to find on a tough course. Shot shaping, precision, skills on putt, patience but also the guts to risk when is allowed. Furthermore..i still can't say it being sure of it, but i'm trying to create this course in such a way that the wind direction and speed don't impacts too much on the game. Or, at least, it seems that just one direction could create some issue if wind should be strong..but i'll confirm or not this thing when it will be done. Greens are sloped and pinned using max speed..i'll slow them later before to finish. Anyway..tonight i'll restart to work. Have a nice day guys. (If someone should have advices, questions or critics of any kind..i'm here)
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Apr 4, 2020 19:05:51 GMT -5
Some other update : I work everyday on this course, in the free time from the list and some practice. It could be actually already finished, but i decided some day ago to change a pair of holes and, above all, i'm literally put a lot of eye's candies on it, a bit cause i like it to do it, a bit to learn how to use everything. Strictly about the course, at this point i miss only : 1) to build 3 new greens and a fairway i decided to change 2) the tees for pro and beginner clubs. 3) To playtest every pin position a lot of times. 4) Final strategic planting and various objects 5) Some other eye's candy. 6) To create some environment i like around the course. 7) To find a proper light. And surely some other thing i forget, right now. I decided to change the final par, it will be 71 (5 par 3s and 4 par 5s), cause i changed a long par 4 in a strategic par 5. My plantmeter is almost to the half, but i did the biggest part of work, so i'm pretty sure it will be ok. Later i'll post some other pic
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