Group C Results Thread

[reebdoog]

Keystone Heights GC     2-0-1     7 points ADVANCES

Fisheye Bay Golf Club     1-0-2     5 points ADVANCES

Ravenna Golf Club         1-2-0     3 points

Whiterun                          0-2-1     1 point



Keystone Heights GC vs. Whiterun

Judge 1:

Keystone Heights GC - There is not much wrong with this course. It was almost technically perfect. The course is wide open and trees used sparingly. Plants and rockwork looked natural and the whole course was fun to play. Technical elements like paths, walls, slopes and green transitions were almost perfect and about the best I have ever seen in game. Definitely a course worth playing over and over again. Very strong contender overall in contest.

Whiterun - The scenery and aesthetics were nicely done and I felt immersed in the course, the many elevated tees and then uphill approaches got a bit boring. The rockwork was nicely done and the water features were brilliant but minor technical issues and the monotonous nature of the tee shots let this course down against a very, very strong course.

WINNER: Keystone Heights GC




Judge 2:

Keystone Heights GC - A very nice course that showcases Rustic theme in a positive light. Keystone offers multiple options off the tee on most holes, and there’s a nice balance between shotmaking, strategy, and variety. Some holes did feel a touch forces, mainly 6, 10, 13, and 15 and there were some overly bright water wall features visible on 6, 7, and 17. Holes 1 and 4 were probably my favorites on this course, which generally had pretty strong par 5s. Most holes were framed very well with a couple minor exceptions. While it’s an enjoyable course the layout doesn’t quite get mind thinking as much as I’d prefer to see, nor does it offer quite as much replay value as it could, but it’s still a very good course.

Whiterun - This is a fun course to play if you’re looking for a course that isn’t grip and rip off the tee but lets you relax and fire at pins. It’s a technically solid but not exceptional course, and generally most holes could use either a little bit more width, green contouring to reward approach shots from a particular section of fairway, or both. Too frequently I found myself just saying ‘hit the fairway,’ so although it was a pretty course I thought it lacked replay value.This is a fun course to play if you’re looking for a course that isn’t grip and rip off the tee but lets you relax and fire at pins. It’s a technically solid but not exceptional course, and generally most holes could use either a little bit more width, green contouring to reward approach shots from a particular section of fairway, or both. Too frequently I found myself just saying ‘hit the fairway,’ so although it was a pretty course I thought it lacked replay value.

WINNER: Keystone Heights GC






Ravenna Golf Club vs. Fisheye Bay Golf Club

Judge 1:

Ravenna Golf Club - Beautiful setting with clever routing. Nice mix of tight treelined spaces as well as open views between holes. 14 is one of my favorite holes in this contest, it's truly terrifying in the best ways.

Fisheye Bay Golf Club - This course is a masterclass in angles and strategy. Taking an almost completely flat piece of terrain and creating such an engaging experience that changes with every pin set is truly remarkable. The use of water, retaining walls and planting all combine to make a really immersive environment. This course is the complete package and one of the best I've played in this contest.

WINNER: Fisheye Bay Golf Club




Judge 2:

Ravenna Golf Club - This is a fine course. Its playable, worthy of being on one of the pro tours. I can tell the designer knows how to use the tools at his disposal. Some small things in each category that were consistently missed throughout the course kept it from winning this matchup. While I enjoyed Ravenna and will play it again, everywhere it was good its competitor was great.

Fisheye Bay Golf Club - Really stood out in every category. A couple holes were a tad underwhelming but it was because the rest were so good. Only a few technical errors which shows the level of detail that went into creating this course. For the most part the holes seemed to flow well with a few exceptions where it felt like I was playing a group of 4 hole courses as opposed to one 18 hole course. The environment created was immersive and well done and continued throughout. It was a fair challenge and kept me thinking the whole time.

WINNER: Fisheye Bay Golf Club






Keystone Heights GC vs. Ravenna Golf Club

Judge 1:

Keystone Heights GC - Keystone Heights was a beautiful course not only to look at but to play as well. A lot of thinking was required to avoid hazards and provide optimal angles to pins.

Ravenna Golf Club - This was a nice course but was lacking in strategic and aesthetic elements when compared to Keystone Heights.

WINNER: Keystone Heights GC




Judge 2:

Keystone Heights GC - Keystone Heights is a great looking course that plays well and not too difficult to get round and score well on. I think it offered more options around the course than Ravenna.

Ravenna Golf Club - Ravenna is a great natural looking course with good use of fairway shaping and elevation to provide a stern challenge. If the conditions are tough it could result in a high scoring round.

WINNER: Keystone Heights GC






Whiterun vs. Fisheye Bay Golf Club

Judge 1:

Whiterun - I really like the variety of holes and would play this course again. Overall appeal is good just need to change up the bunker shapes. (Whiterun? Skyrim?)

Fisheye Bay Golf Club - I enjoyed my rounds but found the variety was lacking for this course. Same view on most holes.

WINNER: Whiterun




Judge 2:

Whiterun - Nice playable course though I think some will not enjoy the continual use of broken fairways and island green areas. However the routing of the course is good, but it is lacking a little bit in the finishing touches.

Fisheye Bay Golf Club - As with Course 1 this one is playable and the aesthetic continuity is what makes this one stand out over Course 1. It is the course with those finishing touches that make you remember it more.

WINNER: Fisheye Bay Golf Club






Keystone Heights GC vs. Fisheye Bay Golf Club

Judge 1:

Keystone Heights GC - Technically brilliant but a bit too straightforward to play. Stunning visuals to enjoy and I appreciate the amount of thought and effort that went into them. Ultimately in a head-to-head contest my choice was a good looking challenging test over an exceptionally pretty less enjoyable test of golf.

Fisheye Bay Golf Club - Overall a better mix of aesthetically pleasing visuals with playability. I felt more engaged with this course through several rounds.

WINNER: Fisheye Bay Golf Club




Judge 2:

Keystone Heights GC - A beautiful course that gives you color in every aspect. Red flowers, red cartpath but also the water and rocks add to the look. Combining this with interesting holes and playability should place this course into the next round imo. Interesting greens and sculpting add to the experience.

Fisheye Bay Golf Club - A beautiful look but it does not utilize colors as well as course no 1 as maybe more rocks could have been used for some contrast. I did not realize how close my score were between these 2 until I put in the last number. Both give an amazing experience but ultimately it came down to 3 things for me. 1 a very small bunker that was out of place on the 17. 2. Some run off areas where I literally almost could have ended up pin high 3 feet away from a pin and it rolled off the green, some other greens also had a tendency to roll to the back.3. Uneven Tee boxes!

WINNER: Keystone Heights GC






Whiterun vs. Ravenna Golf Club

Judge 1:

Whiterun - This course has the look and feel of a great golf course, but just lacks for me in the playbility. Greens seem to be sloping in all directions, some of the design decisions left me scratching my head, and just felt a bit off while playing.

Ravenna Golf Club - This course doesn't stack up to the beauty of the other, but it's a lot more playable. Technically clean, and decent in its own right, it gets the edge in this match up because it just plays better than the first course.

WINNER: Ravenna Golf Club




Judge 2:

Whiterun - Whiterun is a great course in it's own right with lots of decisions to be made while playing it. Visually a great looking course. There were some things with sculpting and playability where it lost some interest and gave Ravenna the advantage.

Ravenna Golf Club - Ravenna is a fun course with beautiful elevation changes. Of these two courses it was the one that would have me coming back first. The sculpting was interesting and features of the course gave it a nice challenge.

WINNER: Ravenna Golf Club

[LocoOnTheSoco]

[mayday_golf83]

Feb 17, 2020 17:11:09 GMT -5 LocoOnTheSoco said:

A fifth for your fourth? 😉

[LocoOnTheSoco]

Feb 17, 2020 17:51:31 GMT -5 mayday_golf83 said:

Feb 17, 2020 17:11:09 GMT -5 LocoOnTheSoco said:

A fifth for your fourth? 😉

Ooo, snap! That's...actually pretty good I got nuthin'. lol

It's also helping with the pain of this really slow guillotine...OY!

[LocoOnTheSoco]

Congrats to Sindre and Mayo! This was pretty much locked in as I personally felt you had the best tracks in the group. Good luck in the next round.

Having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in a 1-point finish after all that work. Ce la vie. Guess I could have kept the original name.

Just a couple notes on the comments - I mean we have to defend ourselves a little bit right? - "greens sloping in all directions" is not something I was expecting to read as a complaint. I mean, it's kinda what they do, but having spent time making sure they had a reason to slope a certain way, this one stings a little. The overall 'cut and dry' feel of some of them is disappointing after so much effort to make this course look nice but play well too. It gives off a very "played it once" vibe.

Anyway I knew what I signed up for. On to the CC!

[catcherman22]

Feb 18, 2020 8:38:13 GMT -5 LocoOnTheSoco said:

Congrats to Sindre and Mayo! This was pretty much locked in as I personally felt you had the best tracks in the group. Good luck in the next round.

Having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in a 1-point finish after all that work. Ce la vie. Guess I could have kept the original name.

Just a couple notes on the comments - I mean we have to defend ourselves a little bit right? - "greens sloping in all directions" is not something I was expecting to read as a complaint. I mean, it's kinda what they do, but having spent time making sure they had a reason to slope a certain way, this one stings a little. The overall 'cut and dry' feel of some of them is disappointing after so much effort to make this course look nice but play well too. It gives off a very "played it once" vibe.

Anyway I knew what I signed up for. On to the CC!

Let me help... greens sloping in all directions refer to the greens themselves as well as around some pins... look at some stellar courses and a common thing you’ll notice is the continuity around the pin.

use it as a growing technique...I don’t think you’re far off

[LocoOnTheSoco]

Feb 18, 2020 9:47:55 GMT -5 catcherman22 said:

Feb 18, 2020 8:38:13 GMT -5 LocoOnTheSoco said:

Congrats to Sindre and Mayo! This was pretty much locked in as I personally felt you had the best tracks in the group. Good luck in the next round.

Having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in a 1-point finish after all that work. Ce la vie. Guess I could have kept the original name.

Just a couple notes on the comments - I mean we have to defend ourselves a little bit right? - "greens sloping in all directions" is not something I was expecting to read as a complaint. I mean, it's kinda what they do, but having spent time making sure they had a reason to slope a certain way, this one stings a little. The overall 'cut and dry' feel of some of them is disappointing after so much effort to make this course look nice but play well too. It gives off a very "played it once" vibe.

Anyway I knew what I signed up for. On to the CC!

Let me help... greens sloping in all directions refer to the greens themselves as well as around some pins... look at some stellar courses and a common thing you’ll notice is the continuity around the pin.

use it as a growing technique...I don’t think you’re far off

Help appreciated Dan and I'm always taking notes. That said, I need a little more to go on - like an example of which green or greens they are referring to so I can compare it to Stellar McStellarman's. Even if they meant it as a general statement (i.e. all of them suck), I need a little more detail here. I'm not trying to be a hardass about it, I'm just honestly not fully grasping this critique, and I can't work on it until I do. 

[catcherman22]

I didn't list specifics in my notes... you'd be better off getting a critique from somebody who streams (b101 mattf27  reebdoog Crazycanuck1985 mayday_golf83)..

What I noted to myself was that there are unintentional (maybe intentional?) bowls in your greens.. .what I mean by that is that shots hit to multiple parts of the green all end up in the same spot. I noted 15 in my notes, but honestly since it's been so long, I don't remember anything about it.... I just noted that i couldn't figure out where to hit my shot.

I also noted, for what its worth, that I thought it would be difficult to find 4 different pins on some of the greens.

Sorry to not get you more specifics... but like I said watching this on a stream would be much better.

[b101]

Yeah, the old puddles on greens thing is something that I think is definitely worth learning about, just because it'll help the greens make more sense. Don't necessarily view it as water collection spots (it's a game), but if you make certain to have a low point on the edge of each green that all beads can eventually flow towards, I do think it makes for better greens. In real life, green drainage is a huge issue, and even punchbowl greens have ways for the green to drain.

From a playability point of view, when you eliminate those random bowls Dan is talking about, you'll notice the ball tends to finish in different spots on the green, lending more interest. I've found it to be a really good thing to learn about.

Happy to do a short video on it if of use

[LocoOnTheSoco]

Feb 18, 2020 11:46:39 GMT -5 catcherman22 said:

I didn't list specifics in my notes... you'd be better off getting a critique from somebody who streams (b101 mattf27  reebdoog Crazycanuck1985 mayday_golf83 )..

What I noted to myself was that there are unintentional (maybe intentional?) bowls in your greens.. .what I mean by that is that shots hit to multiple parts of the green all end up in the same spot. I noted 15 in my notes, but honestly since it's been so long, I don't remember anything about it.... I just noted that i couldn't figure out where to hit my shot.

I also noted, for what its worth, that I thought it would be difficult to find 4 different pins on some of the greens.

Sorry to not get you more specifics... but like I said watching this on a stream would be much better.

No apology necessary, you gave me plenty to go on here. Thanks!

[LocoOnTheSoco]

Feb 18, 2020 11:54:57 GMT -5 b101 said:

Yeah, the old puddles on greens thing is something that I think is definitely worth learning about, just because it'll help the greens make more sense. Don't necessarily view it as water collection spots (it's a game), but if you make certain to have a low point on the edge of each green that all beads can eventually flow towards, I do think it makes for better greens. In real life, green drainage is a huge issue, and even punchbowl greens have ways for the green to drain.

From a playability point of view, when you eliminate those random bowls Dan is talking about, you'll notice the ball tends to finish in different spots on the green, lending more interest. I've found it to be a really good thing to learn about.

Happy to do a short video on it if of use

Yes confession time: I have never even considered water collection and green drainage in designing my greens, which is now apparently extremely obvious. 

If it's not a bother, a vid on this would actually be really great. I'm sure others could benefit as well.

[b101]

Feb 18, 2020 12:07:53 GMT -5 LocoOnTheSoco said:

Feb 18, 2020 11:54:57 GMT -5 b101 said:

Yeah, the old puddles on greens thing is something that I think is definitely worth learning about, just because it'll help the greens make more sense. Don't necessarily view it as water collection spots (it's a game), but if you make certain to have a low point on the edge of each green that all beads can eventually flow towards, I do think it makes for better greens. In real life, green drainage is a huge issue, and even punchbowl greens have ways for the green to drain.

From a playability point of view, when you eliminate those random bowls Dan is talking about, you'll notice the ball tends to finish in different spots on the green, lending more interest. I've found it to be a really good thing to learn about.

Happy to do a short video on it if of use

Yes confession time: I have never even considered water collection and green drainage in designing my greens, which is now apparently extremely obvious. 

If it's not a bother, a vid on this would actually be really great. I'm sure others could benefit as well.

Nor had I until I read through some old contest review threads and it kept popping up, so I looked into it. Sure, will pop something together this evening or tomorrow.

Edit: LocoOnTheSoco - I’ll probably stream something in an hour to an hour or a half. I’ll record it to YouTube but if you want to come into Twitch to ask questions, please do. I’ll drop you a PM ten mins or so before