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Post by lessthanbread on Jan 13, 2020 13:00:39 GMT -5
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jan 28, 2020 9:14:02 GMT -5
Historically, odds are massively against him.
I can't remember a single case in which a monster of some sport had a son strong as him..or stronger. I still remember MJ talking to their sons about "The Burden" in the speech for his induction in the hall of fame...and i still laugh.
Just for my curiosity, someone can remember/find some case? (i'm almost sure must be some case, but i just can't find a single one)
If i think about it, maybe the only near a little to be considered could be Dale Earnardt jr?
But, even if he won enough and i was too little (and nascar was/is actually inexistent in italy) to follow his dad's career "directly", i strongly suspect that he was way, way better.
Then there is Michael Andretti that was really, really good..but Mario was/is simply a God (still one of my favorite drivers and sport heroes).
There is also Damon Hill, he also won, but it could not clean the shoes of his father Graham.
Ah..sh!t!! i got one! Paolo Maldini. His father Cesare was a great, great player, also captain of AC Milan in the 60s, but no doubt Paolo has been better.
But now i'm sure there is someone else and i just forgot (or i just ignore it)...suggestions?
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Post by lessthanbread on Jan 28, 2020 10:02:50 GMT -5
Historically, odds are massively against him. I can't remember a single case in which a monster of some sport had a son strong as him..or stronger. I still remember MJ talking to their sons about "The Burden" in the speech for his induction in the hall of fame...and i still laugh. Just for my curiosity, someone can remember/find some case? (i'm almost sure must be some case, but i just can't find a single one) If i think about it, maybe the only near a little to be considered could be Dale Earnardt jr? But, even if he won enough and i was too little (and nascar was/is actually inexistent in italy) to follow his dad's career "directly", i strongly suspect that he was way, way better. Then there is Michael Andretti that was really, really good..but Mario was/is simply a God (still one of my favorite drivers and sport heroes). There is also Damon Hill, he also won, but it could not clean the shoes of his father Graham. Ah..sh!t!! i got one! Paolo Maldini. His father Cesare was a great, great player, also captain of AC Milan in the 60s, but no doubt Paolo has been better. But now i'm sure there is someone else and i just forgot (or i just ignore it)...suggestions? Excellent point. It's true it is very difficult for children of sports legends to have similar or better careers compared to their parents... 1: Because it's just really difficult in its own right to become a sports legend and 2: They have the pressure of measuring up when their parents didn't have that kind of pressure. One example that came to mind immediately for me would be Ken Griffey Jr. His dad was a 3x all-star and 2x world series champion, career .296 batting average and Jr. far exceeded his father's career numbers although he did fail to win a world series. Another example is the Manning family in the NFL. The dad, Archie, was a 2nd overall draft pick and 2x pro bowler (all-star of sorts for non-american football fans). Two of his sons, Peyton and Eli, had themselves hall of fame worthy careers in the NFL, both far exceeding what their dad did. Also should note Archie's oldest son, Cooper, was on his way to having a great football career as well but was diagnosed with spinal stenosis that ended his career. |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jan 28, 2020 13:22:14 GMT -5
I imagined that baseball could be the right and better place to find this kind of situations. After all, is the most romantic sport of the world  Unfortunately, in Italy it is absolutely unknown to the great audience, exactly like the american football and (above all, i suppose) the hockey. What i know about these sports is the result of curiosity and luck..so i know very little about the history of players and teams. So, for example, even if i obviously know the Manning bros, i was totally unaware that their father was a great player too.  |
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Post by linkslover on Jan 29, 2020 7:44:57 GMT -5
Brian Clough and his son Nigel. Nigel was the better footballer, Brian the better manager, a true legend. That one goes both ways. "I wouldn't say I'm the best, but I'm among the top one" was one of Brian's many memorable quotes. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 29, 2020 15:13:30 GMT -5
Brian Clough and his son Nigel. Nigel was the better footballer, Brian the better manager, a true legend. That one goes both ways. "I wouldn't say I'm the best, but I'm among the top one" was one of Brian's many memorable quotes. Not sure Nigel was the better player. Brian was an absolutely prolific goalscorer, who got caps for England, and then had a devastating knee injury that finished his career. I'd say their playing careers were roughly equal, or maybe Brian better... |
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 29, 2020 15:17:59 GMT -5
Sports stars' kids even making it to the pros is a huge achievement. And probably a sign of the genes and mentoring working out. But also becoming a "legend" is just SO unlikely.
There's quite a few who became stars, who's parents were just "good."
Floyd Mayweather and Steph curry come to mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 15:29:26 GMT -5
If I was him the last sport I would play competitively is golf. He will always be under Tigers shadow. That's big @!$#ing shadow.
Being a son involved in a family business that my Dad started I know what being compared to your father is like. Obviously it's not on the same level as being Tiger's son but people think everything is just handed to you. I have been able to pave my own path and prove myself since I took over 15 years ago but on some level it's always there.
No matter what Tiger's son will have to deal with always being compared to him. Just depends on how he deals with it.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jan 29, 2020 20:22:53 GMT -5
Brian Clough and his son Nigel. Nigel was the better footballer, Brian the better manager, a true legend. That one goes both ways. "I wouldn't say I'm the best, but I'm among the top one" was one of Brian's many memorable quotes. My favorite stays "Rome wasn't built in a day, but i was not involved in the work". Clough is the man He was the Real Special One, for me. The proof that a great manager can make every difference. There is a really good movie about the start of his career as a manager, with the Derby County years and the awful experience at Leeds Utd, then Brighton...and not a scene about the years with the Nottingham Forest..a simple but great soccer movie, very genuine, in which you can feel the passion of those years. If i remember well is named simply "Clough", but i could be wrong. EDIT : absolutely wrong. I checked it. The movie is called "The Damned United". |
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Post by linkslover on Jan 30, 2020 7:09:57 GMT -5
My favorite stays "Rome wasn't built in a day, but i was not involved in the work". Clough is the man He was the Real Special One, for me. The proof that a great manager can make every difference. There is a really good movie about the start of his career as a manager, with the Derby County years and the awful experience at Leeds Utd, then Brighton...and not a scene about the years with the Nottingham Forest..a simple but great soccer movie, very genuine, in which you can feel the passion of those years. If i remember well is named simply "Clough", but i could be wrong. EDIT : absolutely wrong. I checked it. The movie is called "The Damned United". I've seen The Damned United. It's brilliant. I thought Martin Sheen was superb as Clough. There was also a TV documentary on him a few years back that covered his entire career, primarily in management that was excellent. |
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Post by linkslover on Jan 30, 2020 7:14:52 GMT -5
Not sure Nigel was the better player. Brian was an absolutely prolific goalscorer, who got caps for England, and then had a devastating knee injury that finished his career. I'd say their playing careers were roughly equal, or maybe Brian better... Nigel gets it as a player. Nigel had 14 caps for England where as Brian had 2 and Nigel won two League Cups where as Brian didn't win any many honours. You can't compare goalscoring records. Brian was a striker while Nigel was a midfielder. Also, in the era when Brian played there were more goals scored than the era in which Nigel played. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 30, 2020 7:45:42 GMT -5
Not sure Nigel was the better player. Brian was an absolutely prolific goalscorer, who got caps for England, and then had a devastating knee injury that finished his career. I'd say their playing careers were roughly equal, or maybe Brian better... Nigel gets it as a player. Nigel had 14 caps for England where as Brian had 2 and Nigel won two League Cups where as Brian didn't win any many honours. You can't compare goalscoring records. Brian was a striker while Nigel was a midfielder. Also, in the era when Brian played there were more goals scored than the era in which Nigel played. Brian would've got many more caps if he hadn't have got injured. The injury happened when he was 25-26? I don't like using trophies to judge players. Teams win trophies? I didn't compare their goalscoring records anywhere in my comment; I'm saying Brian was a VERY good striker, as evidenced by his amazing goal record. Anyway, no matter, as I said, they're roughly comparable, both very good but not amazing players. so splitting hairs... |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jan 30, 2020 9:04:49 GMT -5
Nigel gets it as a player. Nigel had 14 caps for England where as Brian had 2 and Nigel won two League Cups where as Brian didn't win any many honours. You can't compare goalscoring records. Brian was a striker while Nigel was a midfielder. Also, in the era when Brian played there were more goals scored than the era in which Nigel played. Brian would've got many more caps if he hadn't have got injured. The injury happened when he was 25-26? I don't like using trophies to judge players. Teams win trophies? I didn't compare their goalscoring records anywhere in my comment; I'm saying Brian was a VERY good striker, as evidenced by his amazing goal record. Anyway, no matter, as I said, they're roughly comparable, both very good but not amazing players. so splitting hairs... Brian was a fantastic striker. Smart and strong with both feet. He was a really modern striker. He scored in almost every of the over 300 games he played..and he has still the record for goals scored per match in the english football : 0, 91 goals per match!! (second in the United Knigdom football overall, if we count Scotland) But even if i prefer Brian too, is absolutely true : roles are different and in the Brian's era there were a lot of goals more. So said, Brian broked his knee's ligament when he was 27. He stayed inactive for 2 years, then he tried to play some months before to retire at the age of 29. About the National team, i think that the problem has been that he was an @$$hole already as a player. In short, being an exceptional killer in the penalty area, he always refused (in club and national team) to play every role but central striker. And it seems has been this attitude to make him not so good for the national (2 caps, no goals). It makes sense..a national teams is not a club. You can't decide where to play and what to do, when your teammates are strong as you are..if not stronger. I watched again the movie too, tonight Now i want to see the documentary you are talking about. Is named something like "The miracle's man"..but i'll check it. Anyway, the plot of the movie "The Damned United" is quite controversial..a certain numbers of things it seems they never happened, or they happened in a different way (or time). But yes, i love this movie. And all the actors are great! What makes great Clough for me is the fact that he won two national titles with two different teams, both little teams, both promoted from the first division. And staying always competitive, almost every year. And, obviously, the 2 Champions Cup with the Nottingham Forest are simply out from the world. No words. There was also a semifinal of Uefa Cup that Nottingham losed against Anderlecht in avvery strange way, some year later, but at the end of the season resulted that the referee of the match was payed by the Anderlecht president (and Anderlecht was banned from every European competitions for a season, for this...). It was a good chance to win another International Trophy for the Forest. Clough also refused to play their first Intercontinental Cup (in Paraguay, against the Asuncion, if i remember well) cause the trip in South America and some concerns about the security of players. In fact, from the next year Fifa organized the event in Japan, for this reason (and Nottingham losed this second match). |
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 30, 2020 9:59:10 GMT -5
Brian would've got many more caps if he hadn't have got injured. The injury happened when he was 25-26? I don't like using trophies to judge players. Teams win trophies? I didn't compare their goalscoring records anywhere in my comment; I'm saying Brian was a VERY good striker, as evidenced by his amazing goal record. Anyway, no matter, as I said, they're roughly comparable, both very good but not amazing players. so splitting hairs... Brian was a fantastic striker. Smart and strong with both feet. He was a really modern striker. He scored in almost every of the over 300 games he played..and he has still the record for goals scored per match in the english football : 0, 91 goals per match!! (second in the United Knigdom football overall, if we count Scotland) But even if i prefer Brian too, is absolutely true : roles are different and in the Brian's era there were a lot of goals more. So said, Brian broked his knee's ligament when he was 27. He stayed inactive for 2 years, then he tried to play some months before to retire at the age of 29. About the National team, i think that the problem has been that he was an @$$hole already as a player. In short, being an exceptional killer in the penalty area, he always refused (in club and national team) to play every role but central striker. And it seems has been this attitude to make him not so good for the national (2 caps, no goals). It makes sense..a national teams is not a club. You can't decide where to play and what to do, when your teammates are strong as you are..if not stronger. I watched again the movie too, tonight Now i want to see the documentary you are talking about. Is named something like "The miracle's man"..but i'll check it. Anyway, the plot of the movie "The Damned United" is quite controversial..a certain numbers of things it seems they never happened, or they happened in a different way (or time). But yes, i love this movie. And all the actors are great! What makes great Clough for me is the fact that he won two national titles with two different teams, both little teams, both promoted from the first division. And staying always competitive, almost every year. And, obviously, the 2 Champions Cup with the Nottingham Forest are simply out from the world. No words. There was also a semifinal of Uefa Cup that Nottingham losed against Anderlecht in avvery strange way, some year later, but at the end of the season resulted that the referee of the match was payed by the Anderlecht president (and Anderlecht was banned from every European competitions for a season, for this...). It was a good chance to win another International Trophy for the Forest. Clough also refused to play their first Intercontinental Cup (in Paraguay, against the Asuncion, if i remember well) cause the trip in South America and some concerns about the security of players. In fact, from the next year Fifa organized the event in Japan, for this reason (and Nottingham losed this second match). Clough's achievements as a manager are amazing, and he's rightly still revered over here. Agree with most of what else you said  If you're interested in football from that time, you should watch "match of the 70s" and "match of the 80s" on YouTube. It's a show that came out when I was a kid, on BBC, and I watched with my dad, who was telling me all about the teams and players from that time. We both enjoyed it a lot, hard not to enjoy 70s and 80s footage as a Liverpool fan was great to find it and watch it again. Most of the episodes are broken up into 4 bits, which is a bit annoying, and sometimes the final part is missing and/or censored by uefa for showing European cup or international matches. But most of the stuff is there! Go and have a watch! |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jan 30, 2020 18:38:53 GMT -5
LKeet6 great advice mate. After all, even if i love (and i try/wish/need to know about) almost every sport, soccer stays the first love. Burning. Maybe is for this reason that now i feel so distant from this sport. I can't recognize it anymore. By years. And growing up, English soccer for me has been always some kind of Shangri-La. And not cause is where the game is born..or for a matter of technic or tactic. Is just cause the attitude. Of players and fans. The role of the manager. Never to simulate, always to fight. Now i fear all this is going to change too much (too much money involved, players who don't care a sh!t about the club in which they plays, the history, the legacy..and transfers absolutely and insanely pumped up, when an English team is involved..) and even there it seems this attitude is going to disappear, but for me England still stays the best place where to watch a game. (i'm really pleased to note that i saved my magic touch, anyway. Starting from a topic A, i have still no issues to write endlessly until to end on a totally different topic B (or C, if not G, why not?), with total "nonchalance". How lucky are all you guys to have me here again, eh? )
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