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Post by cephyn on Dec 29, 2019 16:52:03 GMT -5
As a banned user of HB forums, I'll have to hope they see the comments here.
They are the WORST at community relations of any game I play, of any gaming company I deal with. They're awful at it. They continually ignore their biggest fans and evangelizers. Their biggest content producers, even! It's pathetic and indefensible in this era.
The design community deserves better. The TGCTours player community deserves better.
But they're all we have.
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Post by nevadaballin on Dec 29, 2019 19:54:41 GMT -5
As a banned user of HB forums, I'll have to hope they see the comments here. They are the WORST at community relations of any game I play, of any gaming company I deal with. They're awful at it. They continually ignore their biggest fans and evangelizers. Their biggest content producers, even! It's pathetic and indefensible in this era. The design community deserves better. The TGCTours player community deserves better. But they're all we have. The sad part is they used to be fantastic at engaging with the community when the original TGC came out. But that all changed once Anthony left. Got worse when they partnered with Max Games. Then apparently hit rock bottom with the PGA partnership (which i'm not seeing much benefit from as a gamer since the actual tour players aren't involved).
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Post by TannerBronson on Dec 29, 2019 20:37:13 GMT -5
My thoughts.
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Post by mattf27 on Dec 29, 2019 22:31:43 GMT -5
Won't be making a full course or anything, but wanted to throw together something fun anyways.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 22:45:21 GMT -5
Wow, imagine the things that could be built.
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Post by Oscar C on Dec 29, 2019 23:32:13 GMT -5
Man those trees.... im sad.
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Post by Davidius74 on Dec 30, 2019 0:29:04 GMT -5
Well said Dylan. I think a lot of what you said is how we all feel, even for us designers that are only on console and don't have access to this 'hidden'stuff.
I got one will keep playing the game but if they bring out a new game then I won't be buying and giving HB money when their communication and customer is so poor.
If they start improving their customer Service and communication with the playing and designing community or are least give us an idea if their are going to do updates or when they are working on then that is different but as is, they don't deserve my money and I am sure the majority feels the same way.
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Post by lessthanbread on Dec 30, 2019 1:36:03 GMT -5
Couldn’t have said it any better myself TannerBronson. The thing that makes TGC unique and a force in the golf video game world is the course designer. It is the heart that gives blood to the game and keeps it alive. I think the designer sits in a happy area where it is simple enough that you don’t need special computer software skills or graphic design skills to get good at it, yet it is complex enough to produce a vast array of results and is hard to master. We all know TGC Tours is a small group relative to the total reach of the game. However, when it comes to designing courses, I have to think TGC Tours designers far outweigh any other designer groups out there in terms of the number of quality publishes. If a designer is good, chances are they are already here or will find their way here eventually. That is not something HB can overlook, yet it seems they are doing just that
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Post by linkslover on Dec 30, 2019 3:24:55 GMT -5
I have said for a long time on HB Studios' forum how poor their communication is with their customers (albeit not as eloquently as Andre did). Their apparent complete disregard for their paying customers by staying silent for long periods, failing to even acknowledge simple issues like the course play counter not rising until weeks later they post to say they have fixed the issue and the only other time they do speak out is with issues like Augusta National. True to form though, HB take no notice about what has been said.
I've even told them to look at Sports Interactive as an example, who make Football Manager. Every single day there are representatives from S. I. active on their forum, they continuously engage with their community and every annual release gets in the region of three major game updates/fixes, including a data update in February to cover the Winter transfer window, and many minor fixes to repair others issues with the game.
HB... how hard is it to simply communicate and not be ignorant?
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Post by b101 on Dec 30, 2019 3:56:04 GMT -5
Yeah, SI are incredible and have been from day one. Every bug gets looked into and they properly engage with the community.
This just baffles me - they could just pop it together as a DLC in a couple of hours, removing the copyrighted content, earn loads more for literally zero new content AND get lots of variety with new courses that would extend the game's lifespan so much further. But instead, they'll patch it out of the game out of nothing more than laziness. As you say, the most ignorant company.
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Post by Oscar C on Dec 30, 2019 4:17:49 GMT -5
Ignorant suggests they don’t know that they are doing it. This mob is arrogant to the max. Unbelievable.
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Post by Davidius74 on Dec 30, 2019 5:20:48 GMT -5
Not only SI but also Cyanide who make Pro Cycling Manager. Now they are are the only company to make a game in a niche market yet they release a new game annually, provide patches to fix what bugs there are and add new content with each release after feedback from the community. They even have an editor and fully allow mods to be made to improve the game. Now they only have limited licensing but don't stop the modding program that allow everyone to put in the official names of races, teams and riders.
Listening to the community and communicating back to them is how they will make money in the long run because with such poor customer service then people will boycott them.
I'd other companies can interact with the communities involved with their games and bring out annual releases then with the time because new games HB should have even more time to communicate with those players who bought the game in the first place.
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Post by Irving R. Levine on Dec 30, 2019 6:27:48 GMT -5
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but HB is aware of this and looks like they will most likely be patching this (my guess is the legal issues surrounding the tournament objects). HB Shaun told me in a PM that he recommends not to publish anything with the new objects or "themes" I've been PM'ing with HB Shaun asking (pleading) for at the very least that they could remove those potentially troubling objects and release the new tree/bush combos as their own themes (you know, since they will already be patching this, why not do this relatively small thing for a group of dedicated designers who build amazing courses to sell your game). I was told that they already released all the objects they could in the last update (apparently 15 or so sheds was all they could release?), but there are "other restrictions on the number of items of each type that can be available in-game in each of the themes" (which makes no sense if you just remove the legal-trouble objects. Also I was told that this was "not something we will be making further changes to for 2019". Shaun, or any other HB employees that will most likely be reading this in the next couple days, I am done biting my tongue. I have been a loyal backer of this game and have bent over backwards to pump the tires of this TGC 2019. Through streams and tutorials that have literally been seen over 100,000 times, myself (and other awesome TGC 2019 streamers and youtubers) have sold this game for you through their content and course designs, while you haven't given us much more than an update on the future of this game or this franchise. Your interaction with the community is an absolute embarrassment and how you treat your hardcore fanbase is just appalling, but you can get away with it because you are the only golf game on the market. All we are asking for is something new and fresh for the designer. I understand the potential legal issues, but why can't you just remove those objects and release the new plants and terrain combos as their own separate themes? I know nothing about making a video game, but I feel like this wouldn't take a ton of time to do as a service to your fan base. But you aren't going to. Really sad. It really pains me to see Canuck get to this point. I mean, I called HB Studios' position of not seeing their community as having any value to them since people would buy the game anyway years ago (hence why I pretty much stopped playing the game) but Canuck has been true-blue since day 1. He's been standing up to defend the game even when it's been very clear HB Studios doesn't deserve the defense. It's sad that a company who started a game with so much promise, a positive and beneficial relationship with their customer base, and rabid supporters who would shamelessly promote a niche video game would essentially crap all over that fan base. But that's the way things go, and now we're seeing the end result of their contempt for their customers.
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Post by linkslover on Dec 30, 2019 6:47:25 GMT -5
Not only SI but also Cyanide who make Pro Cycling Manager. Now they are are the only company to make a game in a niche market yet they release a new game annually, provide patches to fix what bugs there are and add new content with each release after feedback from the community. They even have an editor and fully allow mods to be made to improve the game. Now they only have limited licensing but don't stop the modding program that allow everyone to put in the official names of races, teams and riders. Listening to the community and communicating back to them is how they will make money in the long run because with such poor customer service then people will boycott them. I'd other companies can interact with the communities involved with their games and bring out annual releases then with the time because new games HB should have even more time to communicate with those players who bought the game in the first place. I agree with you about Cyanide. I am admittedly out of touch now with them and the game but I did play regularly every version from Cycling Manager 2 through to Pro Cycling Manager 2011. This was back in the days where I was single and had far more free time, so me not playing their game now is purely down to my circumstances and not a reflection on Cyanide or the game. Cyanide are a French company making a niche game like Davidius says. Back when I was active the forum was French focused and understandably so, being a French made game with the majority of the customer base being French and mainland European. Even so, even way back there was a small but very active English section of the forum that was regularly visited by the English speaking members of the development team who were interactive with the English speakers who played their game. Cyanide are a great example of a relatively small team with limited resources being excellent at communicating with their customers... and this not even in their native language! It makes it even more annoying that HB make so little, or even no effort.
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Post by aron7 on Dec 30, 2019 6:50:55 GMT -5
What has happened to 'the customer is always right' ?? You need to keep them happy or they stop using a product....seems to me that they are happy to just make the money from game sales, which has worked with this game but in future releases those figures are probably going to drop dramatically through their ignorance to keep the customer happy! They deserve all that they get if people do boycott the next release if there even is one!!!!!
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