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Post by Alexander Salvator on Feb 27, 2015 14:15:17 GMT -5
The skills I improve the most in this game are my math skills 
One reason for adding and substracting yardages are the excessive possibilities the game offers you to change the loft of every single club percent by percent. I would totally scratch this part of the game and use the shot shaping box just for fading and drawing the ball.
The distance should only be influenced by the swing itself. If you Need to shoot the ball 110 Yard? You "simply" have to shoot the PW with 90%. It is tough, but it is possible. The scores would definitely go up but the game would be much more of a skill game. If the ball ends up next to the flag it should be because of a really great "executed" shot and not because of a really good "calculated" shot.
Maybe you ask: How can I influence the backspin?
In reality backspin is the result of a well hit shot. So if you make a perfectly straight swing with 100% power, there will be more backspin (of course dependend on which club you used) then with a not so perfectly executed shot.
The swing mechanics of this game are so excellent that it would even workt with this version of the game: In the sand I stopped calculating the right shot and just follow my feel and Imagination and most of the time and up with a really good shot, because the game mechanics are so good.
Just try to Play ten shots in a row at 85%. And with some training you will find out that it is perfectly possible. It will not totally change the game because most of the time (like in real life) you will take the club which you can use for a 100% power swing.
And for all the other cases you should use feel and not mathematics. |
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Post by ralphieboy79 on Feb 27, 2015 15:32:37 GMT -5
Great post. I wish the development team would have taken this approach from the beginning. I doubt we see anything this drastic since people have become accustomed to how the game already plays. I play bunker shots exactly like you do. I never loft those.
I am interested in seeing some of the changes the HB team makes to the short game in the near future. It sounds like some of the extremes on lofting the club up and down are going away. I would imagine this will be greeted with a great deal of anger initially from those that love to dial in those pitches and flops to the exact number. It will make the game better though.
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wendy
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 90 
TGCT Name: Wendy airey
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Post by wendy on Feb 28, 2015 3:12:10 GMT -5
Agree 100% Alex, great post
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Post by rod81simo on Feb 28, 2015 3:37:49 GMT -5
Yeah that is definately something they look into. I think scrapping loft altogether as an adjustment might be abit harsh for the new brigade but IMO I think "lofting" be it higher/lower should be an "Aid" that we can select to take it out of play and if HB did then straight up TGCT should implement straightaway. Wishful thinking. Maybe someone start a thread over there on this issue as it will be well received I'm sure by the masses as once you get good at this game like -8 a round or so you do feel a need for a tad more challenge
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Post by rod81simo on Feb 28, 2015 3:38:53 GMT -5
Great post. I wish the development team would have taken this approach from the beginning. I doubt we see anything this drastic since people have become accustomed to how the game already plays. I play bunker shots exactly like you do. I never loft those. I am interested in seeing some of the changes the HB team makes to the short game in the near future. It sounds like some of the extremes on lofting the club up and down are going away. I would imagine this will be greeted with a great deal of anger initially from those that love to dial in those pitches and flops to the exact number. It will make the game better though. are they making an adjustment to this in the future. Has it been stated and I've missed it? |
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Post by rudyray280 on Feb 28, 2015 9:10:38 GMT -5
It sounds like some of the extremes on lofting the club up and down are going away. This is the first time I've heard this, and I hope you are right. I've basically given up the game due to the heavy reliance on math. Once you figure out the math you can shoot very low, but it becomes drudgery doing the calculations. Admittedly, you could just opt out of doing the math and just play by feel, but I find it hard to do that. Number one, the mechanics of the game make it hard to be consistent using the swing to control power, and number two it is hard to forgo the math when you know you can get it close if you crunch a few numbers just this one time. |
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Post by ralphieboy79 on Feb 28, 2015 9:25:51 GMT -5
Jordan on the HB team said in one of their Twitch streams and on a post in the forums that they are definitely going to work on the pitching/flopping. Now it remains to be seen what changes and maybe it only relates to that and not the full swing. He did say they don't like the ability to max out a sand wedge deloft and get super distance like we see now, so that sounds promising.
I would still expect math to still be a large part of the game going forward. I doubt they change things entirely.
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Post by mcbogga on Mar 1, 2015 9:56:20 GMT -5
I am not so sure this hitting to a % is the way to go. I actually think the loft mechanic is quite close to real world in principle. The amount of change you cam do for each club should me a lot smaller, but it simulates well how you dial in most of your trajectory and curvature through set-up in the real game. Not like you go around on a golf course hitting "87%" 7-irons. Gripped down, ball up in stance a bit, high fadey 7-irons - maybe, but the whole stopping a swing short thing is just off to me if the game is supposed to simulate golf. Trying to hit a mid- or long iron with a partial swing is a sure way to get yourself in trouble in golf.
For short game the partial swings make sense, and the HB implementation is, IMO, quite good.
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wendy
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 90
TGCT Name: Wendy airey
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Post by wendy on Mar 1, 2015 15:19:40 GMT -5
I get what your saying rob but if you grip down on a club yes it reduces distance, loft up ok a bit but not 80% + it's silly. but if you are inbetween clubs you should play the percentage shot, that may mean being long or short of the pin depending on the situation. It would stop dart golf and make you think about your approach positioning more, may not be a case of smashing a driver of the tee but laying up etc to leave a full shot in, as irl... Peeps are saying this game is to easy ( not me) but to get scores down to realistic score things like this need to be addressed, like scout cam? Just give us a GPS and let's play like we would IRL
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Post by mcbogga on Mar 1, 2015 21:53:06 GMT -5
Yeah - the lofting is too much. But I think the term HB is using is not optimal. The way I think about is is that the grid represents just a way to set the shot you want to hit. Loft, ball position, stance, high/low follow through, path - all baked into one. Certainly close to the way I think in real golf (like: let's try a mid trajectory draw held against the wind into this green that should release a bit). Then I try to execute this without thinking about the "nuts and bolts" that goes into it. Feeling in game translates very well to this.
The grid should be "shrunk down" based on club used and have asymmetrical penalties, but principle is good.
I think a better way to make game less mathematical would be to introduce a timing component to swing. Tie this to push/pulls and a (small) distance variation. Make it very difficult to hit a perfect shot but have penalties be very gradual and you have the variation needed. Do same for putting as well to drop sink percentages.
Having an "easy" swing mechanic is no problem and to me what makes the game great. Just needs a bit more depth and variance and it is a close simulation of the real game.
I am aware that the variation I want would frustrate most "gamers" and they would probably label the game "broken".
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Post by doublebogey on Mar 3, 2015 14:09:44 GMT -5
If they got rid of the percentages and the lines, the game would be far better imo. You have to have the ability to loft and deloft the club. That is a part of real golf, however when i do that in real life I don't have a percentage of exactly how far it will go. That's just silly.
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Post by Alexander Salvator on Mar 4, 2015 5:05:39 GMT -5
You have to have the ability to loft and deloft the club. That is a part of real golf,... I am a -12 Handicapper in real life. I do not think I have ever opened the club face on a 3-9 iron on a full swing. Why would I do that? Before I do this I will always chose the next shorter iron in my bag. I also miss the necessity to plan my approach shot. Should I play the ball as long as possible or should I use a shorter iron/wood to leave me a full swing PW/SW/9i into the green? These are decisions you make many times during a rl round. In TGC you do not have to make these decisions as you have a myriad of possible shots within the 100 yds range. Lofted wedges/delofted wedges as full, flop or pitch shot, adjustable on a percent by percent basis. The only variable is not the shot itself but the backspin (but only with flop shots from the fairway) and the wind. Close to the green the game is far too easy and no bunker/water close to the flag is a hazard that makes you think about maybe not attacking the flag. If you do your math right, a hazard is no hazard from within 100 yds. |
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Post by mcbogga on Mar 4, 2015 7:43:05 GMT -5
I don't think of it as loft at address only. More a mix of gripping down and all the different trajectory manipulations (high/low finish, ball back/forward, weight back/forward etc,)
It is too much for the long irons for sure. Had some discussion over at the HB forum a while ago where one of the HB guys also agreed and said they were looking at adjusting it. Not overly hopeful but there is a chance it might change.
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Post by Pubknight on Mar 4, 2015 11:04:44 GMT -5
I would like to see the shot shape box basically become a 4 grid square.
You could loft/deloft by one 'box' like we have now, and fade/draw by one 'box' like we have now.
And the further you go from centre, the more drastically the cone decreases.
So, core mechanics don't change much, thus not alienating people that have played for a while... just scales it back a bit.
I would be happy with that.
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Post by doublebogey on Mar 4, 2015 11:33:15 GMT -5
You have to have the ability to loft and deloft the club. That is a part of real golf,... I am a -12 Handicapper in real life. I do not think I have ever opened the club face on a 3-9 iron on a full swing. Why would I do that? Before I do this I will always chose the next shorter iron in my bag. I also miss the necessity to plan my approach shot. Should I play the ball as long as possible or should I use a shorter iron/wood to leave me a full swing PW/SW/9i into the green? These are decisions you make many times during a rl round. In TGC you do not have to make these decisions as you have a myriad of possible shots within the 100 yds range. Lofted wedges/delofted wedges as full, flop or pitch shot, adjustable on a percent by percent basis. The only variable is not the shot itself but the backspin (but only with flop shots from the fairway) and the wind. Close to the green the game is far too easy and no bunker/water close to the flag is a hazard that makes you think about maybe not attacking the flag. If you do your math right, a hazard is no hazard from within 100 yds. I absolutely open and close the face on all irons and woods for that matter. You do that to hit high cuts, or low draws, etc.. I do that on most approach shots. I guess it matters how far you hit your clubs. I'm often in between clubs and can't simply club down or up to make the difference. Now I totally agree with you on the sub 100 yd shots. In real life those are all feel, really wish that was the case in this game. I would also make the red tiny on high risk shots like flop shots. irl those are hard to pull off, I maybe attempt that once a round. |
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