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Post by tottenhamordie on Oct 13, 2019 19:22:41 GMT -5
After watching a live steam where my rookie course was being played, I couldn't help but laugh at the hypocrisy I see from one "well known" member of this community. It took 13 holes for this "man" to actually say something constructive. Now, I'm the first to laugh at a joke, and sure, the first time it's said "hahahahaha good joke". But 10 times of the same thing over and over? It stops being a joke in my opinion. The person in question, to me, seems to think he's the best designer this game has ever seen. He thinks he's the end all be all on what makes a course good or not. He also just happens to be a judge in this contest, and honestly, I don't want my course judged and critiqued by a guy who has such a narrow minded view on course design. I watched the vod, in which the streamer played another rookie course before mine. I saw 0 jokes, quips, or any kind of negative talk during the entire play through from him in chat. And before the streamer even loaded my course up, this guy was already starting with the jokes, like he just couldn't wait.
Now, I'm sorry that some of us decided to be original, instead of copying designs from previous contests, or just copying things we saw in photos of other courses. Not everyone designs a course to be some pixel perfect shot trap. And for someone who apparently knows so much about design, you seem to act like courses with big greens don't exist. I purposely made my rookie course easy. I wanted the average to below average player to feel like they could really score well here. I purposely made big greens for this reason. I myself cant stand the tiny, red sloped, shot trap greens. Where pixel perfect shots are required just to stay pin high over and over. So to ignore my design philosophy for the sake of some "jokes" just seems ignorant to me. And brings into question how legitimate your judging really is for this.
That being said, I also found it pretty demoralizing to see a fellow rookie designer also taking digs at my course. As I have seen nothing bad said among all of us during the entire competiton. All of this just gets to me after being flamed myself for not giving "constructive feedback" in previous posts in course threads. Also, to not have any of it said in my course thread, or anywhere else. And then just dump it on a live stream like you have been sitting there writting jokes for 2 weeks and now this is your time to shine.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Oct 13, 2019 21:03:30 GMT -5
Glad you enjoyed it! Have a nice day!
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Post by OldSouled on Oct 13, 2019 21:46:47 GMT -5
Just keep designing your courses the way you like them. We need differing courses and designers. If everyone follows the same approaches then we just get the same courses. I don’t know who you’re speaking of so I can’t comment on that situation, but I think the main thing is to just keep going with the designing.
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Post by tottenhamordie on Oct 13, 2019 22:11:10 GMT -5
Glad you enjoyed it! Have a nice day!
i actually did enjoy your stream, and your points were constructive. i just cant stand the wannabe comedian who never misses a chance at another corny one liner. thanks for the play and the feedback, this was in no way about you.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Oct 14, 2019 4:08:26 GMT -5
I don't Know of what/who you are talking about exactly...and sadly I have nothing wise or smart to say to you. But..you should know how it works. When you create something for a community, you'll have for sure various reactions. Some will be helpful and supportive..some not at all. I don't know what happened..i know for sure that someone of us loves to joke constantly and their behavior can be easily changed for insult, sometime..no counting that often the border between a joke and an insult can be also really tight. But generally these guys does the same with anyone..and always. Really. And there is never something personal. And I'm pretty sure about it.
But, anyway..i mean simply that..even if you should be totally right about your impression to have your work (and yourself) just disrespected, you must have simply the "strength" to understand that this can happen and simply going on, without pay to much attention on the whole thing.
I know is not so easy to do..but every human community has these kind of dynamics. And if someone really don't like you, simply don't let his words and/or behavior to change your day. Never let that someone who barely you know can have this power on you. We are a not perfect community, I know it, but it sounds strange that someone shows some REAL disrespect to someone else with no reason. I always think there is just the desire to laugh about things..not "against" someone..but ignoring exactly what happened and of who you rae exactly talking about, i could be totally wrong assuming this. Anyway..i'm really sorry for this.
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Post by mattf27 on Oct 14, 2019 7:53:25 GMT -5
If you feel so strongly about me judging your course, I can easily just remove myself from your potential judging pool. Judges are only doing half of the courses first round, so you can get a complete panel of scores without me being involved at all.
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Post by Generic_Casual on Oct 14, 2019 7:55:51 GMT -5
If you feel so strongly about me judging your course, I can easily just remove myself from your potential judging pool. Judges are only doing half of the courses first round, so you can get a complete panel of scores without me being involved at all. Instead of my courses can you just judge ME? I mean, your voice IS pretty soothing. I'll see myself out now. 😂😂
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Post by Trayys on Oct 14, 2019 10:10:04 GMT -5
Went back and watched the vod to see what was said. C'mon man, those comments are really what this is about..? Almost everyone has had their courses, including some of my 1st courses, absolutely RIPPED apart on stream or on this forum. And not in a playful joking way while still giving back feedback sense like your course was provided. Even if the plan was to have bigger greens, some of the greens are simply too big on some holes, take the feedback. Bunker sculpting wasn't always executed right, take the feedback. Had some cool hole design idea's in there, some really nice rock work, and cohesive planting that looks very nice on some holes, and even would have liked the outer edges to frame the holes a bit more so you could show off more of that nice planting. Take the feedback. Take the negatives that were said, take the positives and mesh them for what they are for your next course. This community is not out to get you or anyone else that seems to act this way.
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Post by gdog on Oct 14, 2019 10:47:07 GMT -5
Went back and watched the vod to see what was said. C'mon man, those comments are really what this is about..? Almost everyone has had their courses, including some of my 1st courses, absolutely RIPPED apart on stream or on this forum. And not in a playful joking way while still giving back feedback sense like your course was provided. Even if the plan was to have bigger greens, some of the greens are simply too big on some holes, take the feedback. Bunker sculpting wasn't always executed right, take the feedback. Had some cool hole design idea's in there, some really nice rock work, and cohesive planting that looks very nice on some holes, and even would have liked the outer edges to frame the holes a bit more so you could show off more of that nice planting. Take the feedback. Take the negatives that were said, take the positives and mesh them for what they are for your next course. This community is not out to get you or anyone else that seems to act this way. Right? I went back and watched the VOD expecting a juicy stream. Was left seriously underwhelmed. The comments were constructive and a bit playful. There was nothing malicious. Take the feedback with a pinch of salt and a spoonful of sugar, if that helps and make a better course next time.
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Post by b101 on Oct 14, 2019 11:45:46 GMT -5
Went back and watched the vod to see what was said. C'mon man, those comments are really what this is about..? Almost everyone has had their courses, including some of my 1st courses, absolutely RIPPED apart on stream or on this forum. And not in a playful joking way while still giving back feedback sense like your course was provided. Even if the plan was to have bigger greens, some of the greens are simply too big on some holes, take the feedback. Bunker sculpting wasn't always executed right, take the feedback. Had some cool hole design idea's in there, some really nice rock work, and cohesive planting that looks very nice on some holes, and even would have liked the outer edges to frame the holes a bit more so you could show off more of that nice planting. Take the feedback. Take the negatives that were said, take the positives and mesh them for what they are for your next course. This community is not out to get you or anyone else that seems to act this way. And yet you will still add boat stands to a future course. Some people never learn...
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Post by rhino4life on Oct 14, 2019 12:59:20 GMT -5
I had this course listed as a possible Friday Night play so I made sure to catch the streams offered by Patrick and Jeff. Both offered up some decent critiques on your course for sure and based on what I seen a lot of what was said was spot on even if you took some offense to the delivery. To get into the design game and getting into contests you need to have some thick skin. If you filter out the redundant jokes from the peanut gallery about the greens and such there was some useful information there in terms of the basics of course building (bunker sculpting, lighting, fairway planning, planting, sightlines, routing, ect). This course had some really nice ideas but lacked polish and execution which generally comes from experience using the tools. I would suggest watching some tutorials or ask around for help. We have a lot of talented people out there spitting out courses and while some borrow ideas or techniques from others, the end result on how they got from a blank canvas to a published course will be greatly different person to person. Lay out a few beta holes and ask someone(s) of your choosing with some experience what they see that maybe you did not. Trust me when I say if you stick with it and get better at the basics while learning new things in the designer, over time you will not be able to recognize some of your earlier publishes.
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Post by tottenhamordie on Oct 14, 2019 13:22:06 GMT -5
Ya jokes are fun and all, when it's not driven home over and over and over for one laugh. Where were the jokes on the first course? Where were the jokes when another designer was in chat? I guess its just a coincidence that he got all excited before my course even loaded, like he just couldn't wait. Also, the fact that we are, for the most part, genuine rookie designers. We joined this competition for feedback on how to improve. And, no, "that's no green, that's a fully operational battle station" and the 10 other lame jokes aren't feedback. And he's a judge. I would expect better from someone who expects his critiques to help the designers during the judging phase. Imagine judges in boxing heaping praise on one fighter, while constantly joking about another fighter. You honestly think anyone would take their judgment seriously after the fight? But hey, defend him, not that it's a surprise at this point....
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Post by Trayys on Oct 14, 2019 13:49:59 GMT -5
New name for this thread...
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Post by Terry Grayson on Oct 14, 2019 14:00:02 GMT -5
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Post by jwtexan on Oct 14, 2019 14:01:59 GMT -5
Tott. Bud. If you have any questions or concerns about constructive criticism from others I would refer you back to your very first post ever on this site.
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