|
Post by dlw1964 on Apr 1, 2015 6:47:46 GMT -5
What unfair pins? I played 8 rounds at fire rock and found no pin unfair. Best round 12 under Worst round 7 under
|
|
|
Post by MrSourNinja on Apr 1, 2015 16:20:46 GMT -5
What unfair pins? I played 8 rounds at fire rock and found no pin unfair. Best round 12 under Worst round 7 under I played 8 rounds there as well. Idk my best or worst but I think best was -10? Worst -3. I found #1, #8 and the par three downhill on the back (idk the hole number) to be particularly unfair.
|
|
|
Post by Oblong on Apr 1, 2015 20:26:42 GMT -5
I am not sure the word "unfair" is proper in this context. Everyone who tees it up is playing those same holes. I wouldn't doubt the average score on them is bogey so if you bogey you are probably not losing any strokes to the field. Par are you may gain a stroke. We used to call hole placements like that "carnival pins".
|
|
|
Post by Bobgod09 on Apr 2, 2015 23:00:12 GMT -5
I shot - 6, - 2, and while the course played very tough, i dont think any pins were unfair. If its too easy someone's gonna gripe. If it's too hard someones gonna gripe. You cant please everyone. I think there has been a good mix of easy, moderate, and difficult courses. And its only week 13! More golfing fun on the way at TGCTOURS.COM, LOL
|
|
Dubsonic
Caddy
Posts: 32
TGCT Name: Darcy Greenwood
|
Post by Dubsonic on Apr 3, 2015 12:20:07 GMT -5
Are all courses between EURO and PGA going to be "tour proofed" moving forward? There appears to be a growing number of us who are feeling discontent over courses selected the last few weeks (particularly the PGA tour). I am not sure what happened, but difficultly pendulum seemed to have swung a little a far in the other direction. Perhaps a knee jerk reaction as a result of low scoring of the previous two events? We had what appears to be a record number of WD’s on the PGA tour this week (23). I am not sure how many were a result of course conditions but personally I WD on account of the last minute course change. Fire Rock Ranch “Tour Edition” wasn’t the course I had originally signed up to play and practiced for. I decided to take the week off and grear up for the challenging but rewarding Magnolia National. Super pumped Fire Rock Ranch currently has a 7.2 rating & Fire Rock Tour Edition is a 6.5 rating (which is mostly us). This is about how I felt as well. Clearly the public didn’t approve of the “tour proofing” changes to the course. If we want to continue to with “Tour Proofing” a suggestion might be to alternate a TGCTour Tour Proof level course and one of the deserving public courses between the major tours each week. This way the 350 or so of us on the major tours has the right to choose. The strength and quality of the tournament would remain intact because the WGR will define the field. Let the public decide which type of course they would prefer to play (Euro & PGA). I personally use TGCTours as a conduit for course discovery as well, and I would have much preferred to discover Fire Rock Ranch not Fire Rock Ranch Tour Edition. I think the two versions of this course are a great baseline. My preference would be to enjoy the great courses as intended for the public. I don’t enjoy being bludgeoned by a course on a weekly basis just because I carry a PGA tour card (Puerto Rico Winner). Let the field define the scoring in the event not TGCTours. I know this is getting a little long winded but all I ask is a little more balance moving forward (somewhere in between in the last 4 weeks). Perhaps limiting the tinkering & extreme challenging course conditions to majors & special events such as WGC events as they do in real life. BAM! Good luck next week fellas!
|
|
|
Post by smoknpirate on Apr 3, 2015 15:26:36 GMT -5
I will say that BlackBird Creek that's being played the week after The Masters for the RBC Heritage is more in line with the courses at the beginning of the year. So, there'll be a break there.
|
|
|
Post by mcbogga on Apr 4, 2015 2:22:42 GMT -5
Dubsonic,
Respectfully, I completely disagree. Seem that harder courses get lower ratings, says more about human nature than the quality of the course I think.
Bottom line is that TGCT from the beginning was a project to mimic the real world tours. Playing what amounts to municipal courses from the front tees is just not in line with that vision. Pretty much the best players in this game are on these tours - they need to be challenged
Set ups are maybe not perfect yet. It is difficult to set up a course for a tour. Bison was excellent and really rewarded good play I thought - fire rock had a couple of debatable holes - same as the Shakespeare. But it will get better. At least there is some amount of challenge and thought required now.
The change has definitely polarized the community. Possibly we will move towards a happy, orbit so happy, medium.
Personally I would rather see "normal" courses with aids off. But that will likely never be the case.
|
|
|
Post by nocturnal on Apr 6, 2015 21:17:47 GMT -5
As someone who has designed courses, I don't see why future courses can't be designed to be more difficult without making everything hard as a rock. Stragic choke points and hazards in the fairways with sloped lies, tucked pins with very small landing areas that will actually hold shots requiring shot shaping to reach these areas. Super firm greens that are impossible to hit shots close to are unrealistic and frustrating. A lucky bounce from 20 yards in front of the green shouldn't be the norm.
|
|
|
Post by mcbogga on Apr 7, 2015 2:37:59 GMT -5
By firming or speeding it up most courses can be made tour worthy. What you are describing is a championship course built for tour play - and there are not too many of those out there still. Prefer the second type myself as well - more copper creek style.
|
|
|
Post by nocturnal on Apr 7, 2015 3:01:08 GMT -5
What you are describing is a championship course built for tour play - and there are not too many of those out there. My guess for why there are not too many out there. Harder to design - extensive play testing to get it right. Only the better designers could probably pull it off. Designers would have to sacrifice some aesthetics and ratings in lieu of playability.
|
|
|
Post by mcbogga on Apr 7, 2015 3:39:25 GMT -5
Fully agree. The ones there are usually have rating lower than 7 - despite being exceptional courses.
|
|
|
Post by MLT24 on Apr 9, 2015 2:20:04 GMT -5
Please stay away from slow greens. In this game slow greens are not accurate to pga tour. The slowest they would ever be is medium. And I have also ran against contradictions in some courses in the game. Like very very hard greens like a trampoline and then when you putt its on very slow. There is no such condition in real golf. If a green is brick hard then it would be like putting on ice. I wish HB had that more regulated. If greens are spungy where the ball bites good, then those greens can't be too fast and vice versa.
|
|
|
Post by bruce on Apr 9, 2015 8:08:45 GMT -5
The thing is theres really nothing setup to playtest courses. Yes for the PC user you can send it to a few people, but for console users, you have to publish it under another name, and then republish it again once its playtested, or should I say even played. Publishing and Playtesting are two seperate things, but the way things are right now there almost the same. Its a hard balance to acheive, a good, hard, but fair course is a fine line betweenhaving something thats playable, yet making it difficult so people won't think its "unfair".
|
|
robdalky
Caddy
Posts: 42
TGCT Name: Rob Dahlquist
|
Post by robdalky on Apr 9, 2015 11:27:51 GMT -5
If difficulty and eliminating regular scores in the 50s are what people are after, you cannot do it by making a fair course, tbh. To me, Magnolia is very difficult but for the pro tour players we still see scores in the 50s. Perhaps what should be considered on the higher tours is to disable the green grid and the scout camera. More realism that way, anyhow. Everyone would have to pay attention during their practice rounds and hole overview.
|
|
|
Post by MLT24 on Apr 9, 2015 12:58:11 GMT -5
I don't think we need to eliminate green grids, etc. to make them "naturally" tougher. Plus this is a video game and when I am standing on a real green I can see and feel the breaks and hill I might be standing on. When grid is turned off it turns into a guessing game and since it is a video game and you can't stand on the greens, reading breaks is not the same. No green grid = no fun, I wouldn't even participate.
What we need and is being looked into, being able to control wind in a particular tournament. Most low scores are shot with very low winds, get the wind to a natural 8-14 mph like you might see on any given day in real golf, and the scores will start to come down, some. This way everyone will have to shoot in same wind conditions, and during practice the wind should not be the same as when playing the tourney. And keep winds at a speed that is natural to the location. Ex. More on a links, seaside course. All seaside courses should have a lot of hard wind.
As for unnatural low scores, this is going to happen regardless compared to real golf. Heck I can hit every fairway on Magnolia, and 17 out of 18 greens somewhere on the green. That is not going to happen in real golf for the pros even with no wind. It is impossible to make a video game just as hard as a real golf swing even at the pro level and keep the game feeling natural too. My thumb versus using my whole body in a swing is just going to be better.
Plus only a few are scoring ridiculously low scores out of 1000's of players. That is very low statistics. Maybe like less than 1 %. Look at our Masters this week. There are a lot of very good players shooting par or worse. We just need to level the playing field with the wind, allowing us to play our rounds when we plan to.
IT is a video game. Some things need to be added to the game to help it be more like real golf. Take some of those things away just to make it tougher will in turn make it less like real golf, and to me is not the way to go.
|
|