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Post by ddixjr509 on Aug 20, 2019 10:34:38 GMT -5
Now I find myself strangely conflicted though. If I somehow manage to squeak into the top 15 I am punished with a promotion to the dreaded Euro Tour!!! I spent 17 weeks in that purgatory earlier this year before quitting and doing a brief stint on the BCT just to get off that tour. This is a real conundrum! I guess I will let the cards fall as they may but I have to say as somebody who has played on 4 different tours this year, the Web is by far the most enjoyable and I really don't want to leave! Thanks hmammoth for making this the place to be! I suspect you also have some time management issues. I still have to figure out a better way to distribute my time between playing the game and designing new courses (or judging courses)... I want to be good at playing and good at designing, but there's just not enough hours to be really good at both. As it turns out 2019 is ending the same as 2018- spend 75% of my time designing/rangering and making a late push to make the Euro Tour on the last week of the season. We'll see where it ends up- though I do have a crap ton of practice rounds on this POS course... so I'm mentally prepared going in.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 10:42:51 GMT -5
Hi guys, I’m sorry you had a bad experience on hole 7, that’s never my intention. It’s always a bummer to see part of the course ruin somebody’s round or tournament. I agree the OB on this design can be of significant impact, because it is set up for major championship events. But again, I apologize for the bad memories.
From a design standpoint, the OB is staked along an exterior boundary of the course, and the architecture of the hole is set up for a risk/reward scenario. Overall, this is not a terribly uncommon structure for a golf hole. I did mark the OB all the way up to the tee with stakes just 15 yards apart in the hopes it would be seen from the tee even if players don’t check the overhead. It’s quite a short par five, so it does not require you to challenge that left side if you’d rather not. But no doubt, an ultra-aggressive line off the tee (as you described) could get a bit unfortunate if the ball doesn’t clear. However, when it does, you often have just a long iron into the green and a legitimate chance at eagle.
I don’t write that part to be defensive, but only to explain my design choices relative to that hole. The course is definitely set up with Tour Championship difficulty, but I hope it didn’t wreck your day. 😕 I am genuinely sorry that happened to you guys.
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dg727272
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 129
TGCT Name: David Guest
Tour: PGA
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Post by dg727272 on Aug 20, 2019 11:59:37 GMT -5
Hi guys, I’m sorry you had a bad experience on hole 7, that’s never my intention. It’s always a bummer to see part of the course ruin somebody’s round or tournament. I agree the OB on this design can be of significant impact, because it is set up for major championship events. But again, I apologize for the bad memories. From a design standpoint, the OB is staked along an exterior boundary of the course, and the architecture of the hole is set up for a risk/reward scenario. Overall, this is not a terribly uncommon structure for a golf hole. I did mark the OB all the way up to the tee with stakes just 15 yards apart in the hopes it would be seen from the tee even if players don’t check the overhead. It’s quite a short par five, so it does not require you to challenge that left side if you’d rather not. But no doubt, an ultra-aggressive line off the tee (as you described) could get a bit unfortunate if the ball doesn’t clear. However, when it does, you often have just a long iron into the green and a legitimate chance at eagle. I don’t write that part to be defensive, but only to explain my design choices relative to that hole. The course is definitely set up with Tour Championship difficulty, but I hope it didn’t wreck your day. 😕 I am genuinely sorry that happened to you guys. Victor...don't worry about it. I deserve to be punished for taking questionable chances and that experience on the Mantis was just one in a long string for me. Yes I was shocked at the time, but did I deserve it? Probably yes. Only gave me a bogey, so not terrible. It's a good course!
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Post by illinoisgator on Aug 20, 2019 16:56:14 GMT -5
I too fell into that trap in round 2...my fault for not checking the overhead but i was in a groove and playing pretty well at that point.
Shot -6, -8, -6, E = -20. Somehow birdied the final 3 holes round 4 to salvage a E round.
I absolutely love this course and while playing it is maddening sometimes after i reflect it is a great challenge. I have never struggled so bad on par 5 on any course I've ever played as much as this. Looking back on it now that i have completed my four rounds there are plenty of times laying up on the par 5 that you can reach in 2 is almost better than trying to putt on those greens. I think i finished with 5 3 putt pars on the par 5s this week.
My only gripe is with the extreme undulations on the greens that the very firm and very fast conditions in round 3 and 4 is very borderline unfair. It was a championship event so i get it but man it was brutal. Congrats to those that could manage to play that final round under par.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 17:01:33 GMT -5
Excellent assessment. You’ll find on hole 1 and hole 10 especially that a 3w off the tee and then leaving yourself a 100 yard shot in for your second shot makes those holes much easier birdies. They were intentionally designed with many options, but playing safe actually makes them tame.
Some of the holes are designed such that you gain nothing with a driver (like hole 3), but you have to figure out which ones. 😉
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Post by dgriffey508 on Aug 20, 2019 19:27:19 GMT -5
Tough course lots of b%&ing looks like . Your all shut at dying
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Post by dgriffey508 on Aug 20, 2019 19:30:48 GMT -5
sh%$
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Post by illinoisgator on Aug 20, 2019 21:19:53 GMT -5
Excellent assessment. You’ll find on hole 1 and hole 10 especially that a 3w off the tee and then leaving yourself a 100 yard shot in for your second shot makes those holes much easier birdies. They were intentionally designed with many options, but playing safe actually makes them tame. Some of the holes are designed such that you gain nothing with a driver (like hole 3), but you have to figure out which ones. 😉 Even if they didn’t always pay off I love the risk reward shots on this course...the little shortcuts on certain holes but requires a very good shot to pull off. And it suckered me into keep hammering away even though the smart play was laying up. I have way too much Tin Cup in me 😂
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 21:26:32 GMT -5
Glad you enjoyed it! #GoGators 🐊
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 23:48:29 GMT -5
Good course here. I tried playing really smart and it still played pretty tough. I can’t remember having that many 200+ yards shots into par fours in a long time, it was a fun challenge.
I didn’t think the greens were overly difficult, certainly appropriate for the championship tournament. For the life of me I cannot figure out how to play the 3rd hole, it baffles me every time I stand on the Teebox.
-8 in round one and -7 and round two for a total of -15 at the cut
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Post by illinoisgator on Aug 21, 2019 7:54:53 GMT -5
Good course here. I tried playing really smart and it still played pretty tough. I can’t remember having that many 200+ yards shots into par fours in a long time, it was a fun challenge. I didn’t think the greens were overly difficult, certainly appropriate for the championship tournament. For the life of me I cannot figure out how to play the 3rd hole, it baffles me every time I stand on the Teebox. -8 in round one and -7 and round two for a total of -15 at the cut Have you played the weekend yet? Which one was 3 again?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 8:21:23 GMT -5
Good course here. I tried playing really smart and it still played pretty tough. I can’t remember having that many 200+ yards shots into par fours in a long time, it was a fun challenge. I didn’t think the greens were overly difficult, certainly appropriate for the championship tournament. For the life of me I cannot figure out how to play the 3rd hole, it baffles me every time I stand on the Teebox. -8 in round one and -7 and round two for a total of -15 at the cut Have you played the weekend yet? Which one was 3 again? I haven’t played round 3 and 4 yet. Saving that for this weekend I think. 3 is the par 4 that goes way right, it’s almost perpendicular for the approach shot. I had like 210+ into the green both times.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 8:56:01 GMT -5
The optimal shot off the tee on hole three for most pins is just a 3 or 4 iron played from left to right so that it hugs that right fairway extension. That’s going to leave the shortest/easiest second shot. The visual illusion on this hole (and part of the genius of it) is that it appears like firing a driver down the left is a risk/reward shot, when in reality there is no reward because the further you hit it off the tee, the further you are from the green. That’s precisely why I connected this fairway to the fifth fairway. The only exception is the far right pin position, which has a much better angle to it from left of the fairway bunker, even though you’ll add a few yards to the approach shot. 😉
The Mantis rewards players who plan their strategy from green to tee. Hope that helps.
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Post by illinoisgator on Aug 21, 2019 9:05:30 GMT -5
Have you played the weekend yet? Which one was 3 again? I haven’t played round 3 and 4 yet. Saving that for this weekend I think. 3 is the par 4 that goes way right, it’s almost perpendicular for the approach shot. I had like 210+ into the green both times. Ok...rounds 3 and 4 were why i was upset some with the conditions. They are so hard and fast that there were several putts that i just could not keep on the green. I know that it's "my fault" for hitting a shot that went beyond the hole but again hitting onto that firm of a green from 200+ away and stopping it on the front of the green is almost impossible. I can't remember the hole but there was one pin position round 4 that i putted it so soft i thought i wasn't even going to make it to the hole but it hit the edge, slowly lipped out, and then picked up steam and rolled right off the green 18 feet away. I was a little pissed about that and vented on here...but anyway everyone has to deal with it.
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Post by illinoisgator on Aug 21, 2019 9:07:12 GMT -5
The optimal shot off the tee on hole three for most pins is just a 3 or 4 iron played from left to right so that it hugs that right fairway extension. That’s going to leave the shortest/easiest second shot. The visual illusion on this hole (and part of the genius of it) is that it appears like firing a driver down the left is a risk/reward shot, when in reality there is no reward because the further you hit it off the tee, the further you are from the green. That’s precisely why I connected this fairway to the fifth fairway. The only exception is the far right pin position, which has a much better angle to it from left of the fairway bunker, even though you’ll add a few yards to the approach shot. 😉 The Mantis rewards players who plan their strategy from green to tee. Hope that helps. That's the hole i thought you meant...i think i played 2 wood off the tee the entire 4 rounds and ended up in good shape on all but one round where the wind was blowing left to right and i pushed the shot and ended up in the rough. I played 1 practice round prior to my rounds and found out driver was not the play on that hole
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