Stricter rules on pace-of-play on PGA Tour

[lessthanbread]

A lot of heated stuff going around the PGA tour on pace-of-play. What do you guys think? (Talking about irl golf, not TGC)

[jacobkessler]

I voted something inbetween.

Pace of Play is a major issue. There’s no doubt about it. But in my mind, the shot clock is kind of over the top. The PGA Tour’s policy actually isn’t bad the way it is.... the problem is that they don’t enforce it. If they weren’t scared to penalize people for slow play, people like DeChambeau and Holmes would at least make an attempt to speed up if it meant they could get multiple strokes added per round.

My daughter plays in US Kids Golf events. Their pace of play policy works really well. It’s typically around 15 minutes per hole, with four checkpoints throughout the round. If you’re playing at a good pace, and everyone else is, the round’ll be done within the time it was scheduled. If not, you can get up to four penalty strokes throughout the round. Nobody wants that, and the kids (at least the older ones) are really good about it.

To me, it’s crazy that a tournament for 11 year olds does a better job of enforcing its policies than the @!$#ing PGA Tour.

[lessthanbread]

Aug 13, 2019 13:15:52 GMT -5 jacobkessler said:

I voted something inbetween.

Pace of Play is a major issue. There’s no doubt about it. But in my mind, the shot clock is kind of over the top. The PGA Tour’s policy actually isn’t bad the way it is.... the problem is that they don’t enforce it. If they weren’t scared to penalize people for slow play, people like DeChambeau and Holmes would at least make an attempt to speed up if it meant they could get multiple strokes added per round.

My daughter plays in US Kids Golf events. Their pace of play policy works really well. It’s typically around 15 minutes per hole, with four checkpoints throughout the round. If you’re playing at a good pace, and everyone else is, the round’ll be done within the time it was scheduled. If not, you can get up to four penalty strokes throughout the round. Nobody wants that, and the kids (at least the older ones) are really good about it.

To me, it’s crazy that a tournament for 11 year olds does a better job of enforcing its policies than the @!$#ing PGA Tour.

Really good points and awesome personal example as well. Right, why would Bryson play in a way he doesn't want to if there are no consequences other than fellow golfers sounding off to the press and a few dirty looks?

It's really strange to me that a huge, storied, professional organization like the PGA is scared to enforce their own rules. I watched the replay of that 8 foot putt Bryson took 2 minutes to hit and it was agony, especially because he missed it...

It'd be interesting to see if anyone has done a study to see if there is a sweet spot for how much time you should take to plan and execute a golf shot. Obviously you don't just go up there and hit it without any thought, but I would think the opposite can be true as well. Does thinking about it too long hinder your play?

[Deleted]

These guys make a living doing this so I do not mind if they take their time within reason but guys like JB Holmes and NA are hard to watch. It also makes golf slower for us amateurs. People see that slow play and think that is how you play golf. Drives me nuts when a 20HC plays slow. Like a guy I know when he is on the green he reads it from both sides but sucks at putting. It is funny to watch but really annoying and it messes my game up waiting for this clown.

[ezzinomilonga]

Aug 13, 2019 13:15:52 GMT -5 jacobkessler said:

I voted something inbetween.

Pace of Play is a major issue. There’s no doubt about it. But in my mind, the shot clock is kind of over the top. The PGA Tour’s policy actually isn’t bad the way it is.... the problem is that they don’t enforce it. If they weren’t scared to penalize people for slow play, people like DeChambeau and Holmes would at least make an attempt to speed up if it meant they could get multiple strokes added per round.

My daughter plays in US Kids Golf events. Their pace of play policy works really well. It’s typically around 15 minutes per hole, with four checkpoints throughout the round. If you’re playing at a good pace, and everyone else is, the round’ll be done within the time it was scheduled. If not, you can get up to four penalty strokes throughout the round. Nobody wants that, and the kids (at least the older ones) are really good about it.

To me, it’s crazy that a tournament for 11 year olds does a better job of enforcing its policies than the @!$#ing PGA Tour.

Is possible cause in the world of a kid there's less space for the ego, that is the bigger part of this habit.
The clock maybe is a bit to much. Even cause not any shot requires the same study. But I'm not a player, so my opinion can't count something. I would to see simply the common sense win a bit more often in the human things.
But the problem of the use the common sense on this thing is that, sadly, the commissars on a course never penalize the super famous players for this. So in the end are punished just the medium level players, almost always.
So maybe a stricter rule is needed.
There's an Italian player, Edo Molinari, who is the knight of this fight. He released also a black list of slow players

I would like to see a presetted time in which a hole must be played, then some exception if there are exceptional situations (extremely bad lie, trees strongly in play to avoid..stuff like this).
If in normal conditions after that time you are still in that hole, you lose a stroke.
It could to work?

[rob4590]

The European Tour had their 'Shot Clock Masters' event in Austria in 2018 - every player had to strictly abide by the rules or face immediate penalties.

I think (from memory) there was maybe 1 (max 2) penalties issued in the tournament.
Again - from memory, I think the players had one or two 'extensions' available for them each round if they did get a tricky situation that they required more time for.

The pace of play improved by 45 minutes per round.....(compared with normal tour times)

But the real kicker is - the scoring was BETTER in the shot clock year, than it was the previous year in the same tournament and same course.......so if the players really want to play at a good speed, it doesn't affect their scoring......

Of course - the known slow players will have avoided that event like the plague.....


The PGA Tour will announce they are going to clamp down on slow play - and they will dock shots to some lower ranked players in minor events........(like they did to the Chinese kid in the Masters a few years ago) - but BDC, Holmes etc won't be among those penalised, as they are 'big names'.......

[coruler2]

No specific idea, but if a group is behind by X time from the group ahead of them, the group goes ‘on the clock’. Each individual is timed on their setup once it’s their turn and only the players averaging over Y seconds is penalized, not the group. First penalty is 2 strokes, 2nd is DQ

[Deleted]

There needs to a shot clock of some sort. Don’t make it too punishing as you don’t want rushed golf either, so give players a fair amount of time, but then punish them with a stroke penalty if they don’t meet the time. Simples.

[Irving R. Levine]

There needs to be some kind of shot clock at this point because the "pace of play" is being abused by some folks. The gentleman's game has a few less gentlemen than previous years.

[lessthanbread]

Aug 20, 2019 10:34:07 GMT -5 Irving R. Levine said:

The gentleman's game has a few less gentlemen than previous years.

Feel like that's becoming true for all sports unfortunately. I think it's the money and the fame. Pro athletes have been paid very well for a long time but now they're becoming ridiculously rich very quickly at younger and younger ages. And with media the way it is now, their lives are fishbowls for everyone.

[LKeet6]

I agree with the "rules are pretty good, but need to be enforced" comments.

I'd say run a very lenient clock on every shot, and start giving warnings if they go over. Adding the clock gives greater transparency, in my view.

Even getting to tennis' level, where it's still not punished NEARLY enough, would be an improvement.

Two ways you could punish without shot penalities could be, after a few warnings, ok now you ARE on a shot clock (maybe until your average round time comes under a specified limit?) Or, like in cricket, you are fined a percentage of your winnings for persistent slow play...

[rob4590]

New European Tour rules on slow play being trialled at the PGA championship at Wentworth in a few weeks time........