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Post by cplampman on Aug 27, 2019 17:26:13 GMT -5
Bumping this but man, also in all sorts of predicaments. Have learned a decent amount since the start and even played around with whole other designs. Now I’m starting to like the other designs more, but don’t think I’ll have time to finish them. So deciding on deciding still running this, doing a major revamp, or quickly working on another design.
But this is beta has been published, so any advice is appreciated.
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Post by Riotous on Aug 27, 2019 21:54:12 GMT -5
Pictures look good but designer self doubt is something that affects me too and i assume most others. I'll give it a play through for you later and let you know my thoughts
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Post by Oscar C on Aug 28, 2019 0:44:37 GMT -5
Self doubt indeed.... i walk away and come back or i stop doing the type of designing causing me problems - i may go and plant for an hour instead of thinking strategy.
Its gotta be done anyway.
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Post by Riotous on Aug 28, 2019 1:37:39 GMT -5
Ha, so true. The bloody bunkers all need to be sculpted, so you just get on with it!!
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Post by welikeitroughnc on Aug 28, 2019 1:54:57 GMT -5
Those look pretty decent but imo the bunkering could use some work as far as sculpting, nothing wrong with what you have but I find they need to pop to grab your attention
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Post by b101 on Aug 28, 2019 2:06:52 GMT -5
I planned on playing three just to give you a brief comment, but really enjoyed the first few so stuck around for 6 (7 and 8 were less good, so perhaps they are less finished?). I think your hole ideas are good, there's a really nice flow and they generally play how you want them to. As welikeitroughnc mentions, the bunkering was one of my two major comments that I think the judges will pick up on. They are just kind of there - either too forced into the landscape or sunken and not really noticeable. Bunkers are a HUGE learning curve and don't be afraid to delete them and start over. For the most part, the placement of them is good, it's just how they sit in the ground. The second point kind of links to that: I would work on the smoothness of your sculpting. Not saying everything needs to be flat, but I would look to use the very fuzzy (first brush on page 4) flatten brush way more liberally as some of the fairways have very severe slopes in places that I don't think you intend. It was particularly noticeable on hole 6 (really bumpy between tee and fairway) then the fairway drops down a really steep slope that it wouldn't in real life - here, I'd either split the fairway in two and make the drop in elevation heavy rough/rocks/whatever - and hole 7, where you have a massive hole in the ground just before one of the bunkers. The only way to get better is to practise - go in, make a load of changes, see if you like it, then exit without saving if not. Rinse and repeat. Like I say, I enjoyed the hole ideas (not a massive fan of the second being a 90 degree dogleg, but that's probably me just really hating those types of holes rather than anything you have done) and I found it enjoyable and varied, which not everyone will be able to do. Well done. Tagging a few guys who may give you some insight as well on a couple of holes - I don't think they're judges, but will offer good advice - perhaps on the back nine? cephyn jwtexan Trayys @bovakian arielatom |
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Post by welikeitroughnc on Aug 28, 2019 2:09:58 GMT -5
I’ll give it a play when I’m home in the morning and see what I think
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Post by Riotous on Aug 28, 2019 7:31:09 GMT -5
Just finished my round at Timber Cove and I enjoyed it.
The holes were interesting, the planting in the first few was very nice and you’ve made good use of the lighting.
There are technical details that could do with polishing for example green/fairway joins, rough, sight lines, naturalness but nothing that can’t be improved on and that’s what this ‘competition’ is all about, there are far better designers than me on here that can help or I’m more than happy to.
The only hole I didn’t care for was the 18th, I don’t think there’s enough deterrent not to hit driver.
Ultimately you’ve got to be happy with your course and if it doesn’t get you all warm and fuzzy then change something or start again. I think there’s potential in this layout you just need to add the finer touches.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 10:02:12 GMT -5
Just looking at the pictures, bunkering jumps out to me as well. Can't really see the shapes so clearly from a quick look although from my very limited experience, the cleaner a look you're going for the more annoying and harder it is to 'nail' the bunker shapes. I wouldn't focus as much on the shapes as the sculpting though. The main tip I can think of is trying to make sure most of your bunkers have a 'high side' and a 'low side,' and when in doubt you can use the surrounding terrain to influence how you sculpt them. In your first hole picture, the two bunkers left of the fairway (especially the closer one off the tee) you could really afford to build them into the hillside. If anything, have a look at some IRL bunker styles and pick what you like from them. Don't be afraid to drop that low side down a good 5-10ft and if anything having a bit of a grass 'wall' can be ok, although I must admit I was heavily influenced by the bunkers on the latest LiDAR project (Black Rock) I worked on. This one hole that b101 was helping me with eventually got a bunker benched into a large mound / hill that was maybe 15ft tall, and the look is....dramatic to say the least. Perhaps this may be overkill for the look you're trying to achieve, but it illustrates how the bunker itself isn't actually very deep: it gets all its 'depth' from the way it sits into the hill. steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/780733475722277054/088640BC2FBB0ECDFBAC598545F94E123BD6AA88/I actually brought the lip down a little bit as I thought it was too dramatic for what I'm going for with that particular course, but it still fits the purpose of this post. And while I know that looks like a place you don't want to hit your ball to, have a look at a different angle, where it reveals that the bunker itself isn't actually all that deep and I didn't drop it into the ground very much. The terrain it sits in defines the bunker and gives it that 'depth.'
Bunker sculpting is something for me that has definitely gotten better with time, although I had a sense of how I wanted them to look most of the time with the depth and high side/low side. However, anyone who has watched me stream fictional design knows just how many attempts it took me to make decent bunker shapes when first starting out, and while the average # of attempts per bunker shape has dwindled significantly I'm pretty sure it's still in the 2-3 range.
I'm personally a big fan of the bunker styles of many of the golden age architects such as Donald Ross, A.W. Tillinghast, George Thomas, etc. and also think Steve Smyers' bunkering is awesome. There's also the Rees Jones / Tom Fazio 'millennial era' stuff which is another nice look, and while current trends are the 'ripped' bunker edges those may be a bit harder to replicate within the designer? Just find something you like or that you think fits well with your course and try to make your own version of it. There is nothing wrong with borrowing or stealing bits and pieces of other people's ideas. "The only way to get better is to practise - go in, make a load of changes, see if you like it, then exit without saving if not. Rinse and repeat." A lot of the time when you're about to make a change and I'm not sure you'll like it, save before making said change so that if you don't like it, you can just exit out of the designer and be right back where you were. Great tip, Ben! |
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Post by b101 on Aug 28, 2019 10:23:00 GMT -5
Just looking at the pictures, bunkering jumps out to me as well. Can't really see the shapes so clearly from a quick look although from my very limited experience, the cleaner a look you're going for the more annoying and harder it is to 'nail' the bunker shapes. I wouldn't focus as much on the shapes as the sculpting though. The main tip I can think of is trying to make sure most of your bunkers have a 'high side' and a 'low side,' and when in doubt you can use the surrounding terrain to influence how you sculpt them. In your first hole picture, the two bunkers left of the fairway (especially the closer one off the tee) you could really afford to build them into the hillside. If anything, have a look at some IRL bunker styles and pick what you like from them. Don't be afraid to drop that low side down a good 5-10ft and if anything having a bit of a grass 'wall' can be ok, although I must admit I was heavily influenced by the bunkers on the latest LiDAR project (Black Rock) I worked on. This one hole that b101 was helping me with eventually got a bunker benched into a large mound / hill that was maybe 15ft tall, and the look is....dramatic to say the least. Perhaps this may be overkill for the look you're trying to achieve, but it illustrates how the bunker itself isn't actually very deep: it gets all its 'depth' from the way it sits into the hill. steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/780733475722277054/088640BC2FBB0ECDFBAC598545F94E123BD6AA88/I actually brought the lip down a little bit as I thought it was too dramatic for what I'm going for with that particular course, but it still fits the purpose of this post. And while I know that looks like a place you don't want to hit your ball to, have a look at a different angle, where it reveals that the bunker itself isn't actually all that deep and I didn't drop it into the ground very much. The terrain it sits in defines the bunker and gives it that 'depth.' steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/780733475724180524/B52707B5AF150BBF1929AB404BA090E376E6F81F/I'm personally a big fan of the bunker styles of many of the golden age architects such as Donald Ross, A.W. Tillinghast, George Thomas, etc. and also think Steve Smyers' bunkering is awesome. There's also the Rees Jones / Tom Fazio 'millennial era' stuff which is another nice look, and while current trends are the 'ripped' bunker edges those may be a bit harder to replicate within the designer? Just find something you like or that you think fits well with your course and try to make your own version of it. There is nothing wrong with borrowing or stealing bits and pieces of other people's ideas. "The only way to get better is to practise - go in, make a load of changes, see if you like it, then exit without saving if not. Rinse and repeat." A lot of the time when you're about to make a change and I'm not sure you'll like it, save before making said change so that if you don't like it, you can just exit out of the designer and be right back where you were. Great tip, Ben! Now that is looking good! |
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Post by cplampman on Aug 28, 2019 15:45:17 GMT -5
Thank you all!
Yeah def having some trouble with bunkering. The locations are always a huge pain for me. I feel like they are just there which I hate. I did make some changes making them pop a little more in between posting this beta and now (just don’t want to post a ton of betas) but def still have work to do. Really appreciate all the feedback and it’s given me some things to work on!
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Post by cplampman on Aug 28, 2019 15:48:08 GMT -5
I planned on playing three just to give you a brief comment, but really enjoyed the first few so stuck around for 6 (7 and 8 were less good, so perhaps they are less finished?). I think your hole ideas are good, there's a really nice flow and they generally play how you want them to. As welikeitroughnc mentions, the bunkering was one of my two major comments that I think the judges will pick up on. They are just kind of there - either too forced into the landscape or sunken and not really noticeable. Bunkers are a HUGE learning curve and don't be afraid to delete them and start over. For the most part, the placement of them is good, it's just how they sit in the ground. The second point kind of links to that: I would work on the smoothness of your sculpting. Not saying everything needs to be flat, but I would look to use the very fuzzy (first brush on page 4) flatten brush way more liberally as some of the fairways have very severe slopes in places that I don't think you intend. It was particularly noticeable on hole 6 (really bumpy between tee and fairway) then the fairway drops down a really steep slope that it wouldn't in real life - here, I'd either split the fairway in two and make the drop in elevation heavy rough/rocks/whatever - and hole 7, where you have a massive hole in the ground just before one of the bunkers. The only way to get better is to practise - go in, make a load of changes, see if you like it, then exit without saving if not. Rinse and repeat. Like I say, I enjoyed the hole ideas (not a massive fan of the second being a 90 degree dogleg, but that's probably me just really hating those types of holes rather than anything you have done) and I found it enjoyable and varied, which not everyone will be able to do. Well done. Tagging a few guys who may give you some insight as well on a couple of holes - I don't think they're judges, but will offer good advice - perhaps on the back nine? cephyn jwtexan Trayys @bovakian arielatom Ugh hole 7. That ones been a pain and it’s changed so many times. I’ll have to play the beta myself because I’m pretty sure I drastically changed it again haha. Thank you though! |
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Post by cplampman on Sept 9, 2019 10:30:11 GMT -5
Timber cove’s owner have ran into some financial problems and won’t be completed in time.
However they did find a different project that they will be working on in the meantime...
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Post by Davidius74 on Sept 10, 2019 9:04:46 GMT -5
Does this mean you are withdrawing? Sad to see you go if you do, even with only a couple of screenshots
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Post by cplampman on Sept 10, 2019 11:37:02 GMT -5
Does this mean you are withdrawing? Sad to see you go if you do, even with only a couple of screenshots No, I'm just not submitting this course anymore. I'll still be in it though! |
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