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Post by t2theb2 on Jul 13, 2019 5:32:12 GMT -5
Personally I think we should have a separate tour for the half swingers. Obviously HB are not bothered about the issue but at least we could do something.
I played these tours from back at the start of tgc1 and this issue as put me and many others off playing at all. It's a real shame as it's a game and society I loved to be involved with.
Bring back the level playing field.
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Post by nobluffme on Jul 13, 2019 5:55:13 GMT -5
If I had a wish list for next season: Separate tour for consoles Cut line for CC-Pro/Am Scout cam turned off for everyone Lie grid turned off
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Post by lessangster on Jul 13, 2019 7:16:00 GMT -5
If I had a wish list for next season: Separate tour for consoles Cut line for CC-Pro/Am Scout cam turned off for everyone Lie grid turned off I think the lie grid is important you can see if your on a side hill lie but not a down or uphill lie which can make a big difference to the length of your shot
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Post by wellsa27 on Jul 13, 2019 7:29:49 GMT -5
My main changes:
Top 10 Xbox, PS4 and PC receive a mark Cash money in for promotion? Cut line for all
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jul 13, 2019 9:13:36 GMT -5
The cut line it would be fine, is something I really would like, but the main reason why is not implemented (and why I think it will not implemented on cc) is simply to help those not fully involved players who can/want to play just on weekends. The cut, to have some reason to exist, needs that two rounds are played before the publishing of the 3rd round's standings. Probably a good number of guys could not play anymore with this change..and the cc needs to be more "inclusive" than selective. Is an "amateur" category, after all. And not all the players are involved in this game in the same way..but they have the right to participate anyway. For the same reason, always talking about cc, the grid lie could be a bit too much. But is a good idea and is something that it could be possible to implement to create some difference between the pro tours, to fix something that, right now, is the only real weak spot of this tour's setting, in my opinion : the fact that web tour and PGA tour shares the same setup. I think it would be useful, if not necessary, to create different levels of difficulty. This would push players to improve and to feel some difference, when they're promoted. It could be possible to do this : Web stays the same, Euro plays with no scout cam, PGA plays with no scout cam and lie grid. I think it could works fine..and maybe this move could be appreciated by those guys who are complaining about the too high and unrealistic scores. After all, the PGA players should be the best players we have..they for sure can menage the change. And the added realism could not be unappreciated. I'm a cc player, right now, but I would like a lot to play with this kind of setup, if I could be ever promoted to the pro tour. And I think I'm not alone. And I believe that with these changes, the tour would be really near to perfection (if only hb would fix the master club and consoles differences issues..). But as above said..i suppose that this idea has not so much sense if proposed just by me and not by the Pro players.. But I strongly believe it would be a huge improvement in everything. Realism, enjoyment, "natural" selection of the best players.
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Post by TheDominator273 on Jul 13, 2019 10:49:34 GMT -5
To add a different perspective on putting, I've been doing true sim (and ultra sim!) For a few weeks now, and gone from almost not being able to detect which way the break goes (the poster above highlighting real life and 2D difference did have a point) and only ever making putts when I got super close, to being able to detect which way it goes almost every time, knocking in a fair few 10-20 footers, and drastically lowering my 3 putt occurrence. I still have meltdowns! I still have courses that don't seem to suit my eye (lahinch on tst was a nightmare for me!) But you defo CAN read putts without the grid; it's crazy how your eyes and brain adjust. If you think about it, the pros (even in 3D!) Don't know EXACTLY what the break is, especially on longer putts. They're concentrating on getting the pace right, judging whether it's a small/medium/large break, and on anything more than 12-15ft, hoping to get close, and with the right pace it might just drop in. That's pretty much exactly what true sim putting is like. You have to adjust to a 2 putt mentality. The pros have a very very good idea of how every putt breaks by virtue of charts such as this Which can be argued is the real life equivalent of green grids. Course conditions change the breaks and speeds needed and sometimes players elect to use their gut to read a putt over using the charts and sometimes they plain miss hit putts. There are simply more variables than can be accounted for in a game which is why even TST scores and stats dwarf real life Tour stats.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jul 13, 2019 10:53:48 GMT -5
Do they refer to that when actually taking putts? I've never seen it. They certainly don't have a real time graphical representation in their eyes as they are lining it up.
In my opinion tst putting is close to real life.
The low scoring is more to do with how easy it is to get fairways and GIR, and proximity to hole, compared to real life.
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Post by TheDominator273 on Jul 13, 2019 11:22:07 GMT -5
Do they refer to that when actually taking putts? I've never seen it. They certainly don't have a real time graphical representation in their eyes as they are lining it up. In my opinion tst putting is close to real life. The low scoring is more to do with how easy it is to get fairways and GIR, and proximity to hole, compared to real life. Not every player does no, but enough did that the USGA and R&A imposed rules for them that became effective this year. The biggest thing they did was restrict size to minimize the amount of detail the green charts could provide. Here is the press release detailing the change www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rulesarticles/green-reading-materials--press-release.html
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Post by SeventyFour on Jul 13, 2019 18:08:37 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I think turning off the green grid would be a bad idea - regardless of the tour. It's not "more realistic", IMO. In real life, your senses are more attuned to seeing the subtle slopes/elevation changes (you can see more clearly, you can feel the ground under your feet, etc). The graphics in this game are pretty good, I have no complaints ... but it's certainly not good enough to make up for the fact that it's just a 2D representation. The putting is already challenging enough - especially given the propensity for very firm/very fast on the pro tours (along with poor - or should I say, sadistic - green designs in the first place). To take the "realism" logic a step further ... there really should be a power meter for putting. Because, if you think about it, in real life, when you're standing above and looking down at the ball, your field of view (or the space between your feet) literally becomes the power meter and the club becomes the gauge. For the record, no, I'm not advocating for power meters ... without them, it is more challenging. It becomes more about practice, practice, practice ... and learning. Just trying to point out the complications/contradictions behind the "more realistic" argument. I'm sorry to be blunt - to anyone this may apply to - but if you're consistently winning tournaments here, then maybe consider the fact that you've simply beaten the game, and move on. It's really not fair to expect them to make everything more difficult just so you can once again enjoy a game you've already mastered. There are still other people trying to master it, you know? (along with people that may have just started playing). On the flip side, I don't agree with those that say it needs to be easier. Some people do need to try and accept the fact that this particular game is one they may never be good enough to "win". It's something I struggled with quite a bit when I first started playing this game. I almost quit multiple times. Turns out, I just wasn't good enough (yet) ... kept blaming the "stupid game" because my swing went crooked or just couldn't figure out how this whole Tempo thing worked - along with assuming that everyone at the top of the leaderboards were cheating - because, if I couldn't get those scores, then surely no one else could ... right???! Well, that pushed me to get better ... I hit the driving range, I hit the putting green ... I learned distances. I learned the tempo. I got more consistent at hitting a straight line. I figured out how far different clubs tend to roll out. I learned how to judge breaks. I learned how to handle loft. Etc. Etc. Currently, I'm in a spot where I can actually compete - and actually believe I have the chance to win. It's taken a couple hundred hours of gameplay to get there, though. So, I guess the point is - put in the time and effort before saying it's too hard! If you still can't do it, then perhaps consider this game just isn't for you (and I don't mean that in a condescending way at all - it's just how life works). With all that having been said, I think the only thing they could change that would be a "fair" change, would be separating Master/Pro clubs. There is a tangible difference in difficulty between those two clubs, so it would make sense to separate them. Otherwise, I think the set up here is pretty darn good. Kudos to the TGCTours team for providing this to us in the first place (I guarantee this site is the only reason some people haven't quit the game already - myself included!) Nutshell, meet facts. 👍
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Post by paulus on Jul 14, 2019 7:50:07 GMT -5
On the green grid debate - this obviously comes around every 6 months or so - so I'll make my normal representation for the 8% of us who are colour blind. Most common form is Deuteranomaly, which affects ability to see reds, greens and browns.
I tried a couple of TST rounds, but just couldn't discriminate the subtle differences. I don't think I could actually play the game without the grids.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 7:58:55 GMT -5
No grids is for the point of TST really. The game is so so much better that way (without grids) but it is a niche simulation tour for the hardcore players.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 11:59:05 GMT -5
It has been brought up to HB that we need a in-between grids and no grids. A heat map or something like the pros use but it only comes up when you hit the overhead map like we have now. It can be a steep learning curve to go grids to no grids. It would be a bridge to help people transition or give them something more challenging.
I have played no grids since the Tiger days and it was very difficult for me at first on TGC1. I actually played no grids at first but then turned them back on so I could learn the putting. After I got comfortable I turned them off and never looked back. Once you get some confidence it is the most immersive putting in a video game I have ever seen. It also changes your whole approach to the game. It's definitely a bright spot for this game if you put the time in. Just like real golf I am spot on some days and others I'm not sure what a putter is. It comes and goes and you will fist pump a lot more with no grids lol. Obviously it's not for everyone but I wish more would give it a serious try.
If you combine TST play with turning off the feedback, aiming marker , pin marker , tracer thing and turn everything to fade minus the hole/club info which is moved to the right corner it's pretty damn close to real golf.
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Post by Giraffe72 on Jul 14, 2019 16:51:13 GMT -5
I used to play 'the game which shall not be named' with the green grids on but the beads off. Bit pointless me saying that as we haven't got the option to do that with this game, but maybe in the future? I used to really enjoy playing it like that.
I'm with Paulus, as another person affected by mild deuteranomalia I'm not sure I'd find this game playable with no green aids whatsoever.
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Post by grinder12000 on Jul 14, 2019 22:13:32 GMT -5
Let's go back to Rory where you had the arrow line thingy that would show you the way to the hole! :-)
The question is - why not both and leave it the way it is. Why is this even a controversy
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Post by paulus on Jul 15, 2019 3:25:15 GMT -5
Why is this even a controversy It isn’t... you appear to be confusing civil discussion with controversy.
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