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Post by jeffbdvs on Jun 4, 2019 21:26:13 GMT -5
Justin,
Interesting idea for a poll. Responses have been insightful. I find it odd that folks who use every legit tool in the game to get the best score they can will argue in favor of an artificial restriction that limits other players from doing the same.
Not being a PGA Tour Pro IRL, I can only guess at why more players don’t chip on the greens. My guess is that they feel they have more control over a putt than they do over a chip or flop. I offer as evidence the fact that many players will putt from lies in the fairway or even the rough near the green instead of chipping.
If you’re a shot behind on Sunday for a major title and you think you can control a chip better than a putt from 40 feet, I guarantee you will chip from 40 feet to get the birdie rather than putt. Good golf manners and green damage be hanged: you’re going to chip. I would.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jun 5, 2019 2:43:02 GMT -5
the other people who have used that line of argument have made it clear they are "amazing" players, if that's not true of you, fair enough, which is why i said "comes across" as supeior. I then proceeded to explain why it's not a good line of argument anyway.
My 80-90ft suggestion is completely unconnected to the course management point, you've misunderstood. like i said don't like the course managment point, so why would i be making suggestions based on an idea i don't like??
My own point is based off green speeds and elevations. I think just a 10-20ft reduction would get rid of a lot of the situations happening, whilst keeping the distance long and not a regular occurance, or be abused by people trying to chip-in (which i don't personally see as a huge issue anyway...)
Who are these other players that think they are superior? getting all worked up over someone saying leaving themselves a 100 feet putt is bad course management is abit much mate Well, I wouldn't want to call people out, but the conversation came up just a week or two again, and there were people in the thread saying exactly that; so it was fresh in my mind I guess. I disagree with you, and you think "it's a bit much." Fair enough...
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Post by LKeet6 on Jun 5, 2019 2:46:47 GMT -5
Justin, Interesting idea for a poll. Responses have been insightful. I find it odd that folks who use every legit tool in the game to get the best score they can will argue in favor of an artificial restriction that limits other players from doing the same. Not being a PGA Tour Pro IRL, I can only guess at why more players don’t chip on the greens. My guess is that they feel they have more control over a putt than they do over a chip or flop. I offer as evidence the fact that many players will putt from lies in the fairway or even the rough near the green instead of chipping. If you’re a shot behind on Sunday for a major title and you think you can control a chip better than a putt from 40 feet, I guarantee you will chip from 40 feet to get the birdie rather than putt. Good golf manners and green damage be hanged: you’re going to chip. I would. Yep, this whole thing about course management derailed the discussion. I go for greens aggressively because I know I can get up and down from rough and bunkers at a better rate than I can from 120yds. (Especially in high wind!) I putt from fairway and fringes, not because I can guarantee getting closer, but because it gives me a better chance of holing out. This conversation is about whether 100ft is too excessive a distance, as far as I can see it.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jun 5, 2019 7:10:10 GMT -5
What happens if everything is in meters ? Or is everything always in feet. I play in meters. In fact, maybe it could be useful to specify in the rules section that 100 feet = 30,48 meters, for someone too lazy to check (as i was ) . One of the reasons why i think the rule could stay as it is now, is that it leaves room to cover the elevation gap that it can be on a putt ( i say this cause, ignorantly, before to check how many meters corresponds to 100 feets, i was thinking that they corresponded exactly to 44 meters, the max distance i can reach on putt) It means that we have almost 14 meters / 40 feets of distance available to balance the elevation gap. It seems enough to me. It leaves room to play. As a little additional remark, i don't know how it works with feets/yards (i believe it follows the same logic), but the game indicates the distances, also on greens, just in meters, not in centimeters (they are used just to indicate the elevation and when your ball is at less then 1 meter from the cup) so a minor issue is that i could have actually a chip/flop availabe everywhere below 31 meters. It means that it can happens to have 3 feet and something of "advantage" on a guy who plays using feets, with this rule.
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Post by grinder12000 on Jun 5, 2019 8:22:26 GMT -5
All,I know is when I’m playing real golf closest to the pin does NOT take elevation into account
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Post by ijs1543 on Jun 5, 2019 9:21:15 GMT -5
Who are these other players that think they are superior? getting all worked up over someone saying leaving themselves a 100 feet putt is bad course management is abit much mate Well, I wouldn't want to call people out, but the conversation came up just a week or two again, and there were people in the thread saying exactly that; so it was fresh in my mind I guess. I disagree with you, and you think "it's a bit much." Fair enough... I have no problem with you disagreeing with me just felt you getting so upset with your first response because someone said your course management should of been better if you leave a 100 feet putt which was not even directed at you was a bit much.
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Post by ijs1543 on Jun 5, 2019 9:34:02 GMT -5
Justin, Interesting idea for a poll. Responses have been insightful. I find it odd that folks who use every legit tool in the game to get the best score they can will argue in favor of an artificial restriction that limits other players from doing the same. Not being a PGA Tour Pro IRL, I can only guess at why more players don’t chip on the greens. My guess is that they feel they have more control over a putt than they do over a chip or flop. I offer as evidence the fact that many players will putt from lies in the fairway or even the rough near the green instead of chipping. If you’re a shot behind on Sunday for a major title and you think you can control a chip better than a putt from 40 feet, I guarantee you will chip from 40 feet to get the birdie rather than putt. Good golf manners and green damage be hanged: you’re going to chip. I would. Yep, this whole thing about course management derailed the discussion. I go for greens aggressively because I know I can get up and down from rough and bunkers at a better rate than I can from 120yds. (Especially in high wind!) I putt from fairway and fringes, not because I can guarantee getting closer, but because it gives me a better chance of holing out. This conversation is about whether 100ft is too excessive a distance, as far as I can see it. Lol course management derailed the discussion, but then tells us that he goes for greens aggressively because he can get up and down easier than 120 yards which in a way is course management, you cant have a discussion about having a 100 feet putt and not talk about course management tgc tours does not play putt putt the only one who puts you 100 feet away is you so if you dont like having a 100 foot putt dont hit it there.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jun 5, 2019 9:41:13 GMT -5
Yep, this whole thing about course management derailed the discussion. I go for greens aggressively because I know I can get up and down from rough and bunkers at a better rate than I can from 120yds. (Especially in high wind!) I putt from fairway and fringes, not because I can guarantee getting closer, but because it gives me a better chance of holing out. This conversation is about whether 100ft is too excessive a distance, as far as I can see it. Lol course management derailed the discussion, but then tells us that he goes for greens aggressively because he can get up and down easier than 120 yards which in a way is course management, you cant have a discussion about having a 100 feet putt and not talk about course management tgc tours does not play putt putt the only one who puts you 100 feet away is you so if you dont like having a 100 foot putt dont hit it there. I didn't think it was "a bit much..." You can and should have a discussion about 100ft putts and not talk about course management, because the game is not the same as real golf. I responded to it to show course management was NOT relevant. "Lol"
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Post by ijs1543 on Jun 5, 2019 9:57:15 GMT -5
Learning this mistake - going for the green in 2 when it is TOO RISKY TO DO SO, is exactly how you get better. Just as if you went for a par 4 in one and hit the bunker that was there exactly for suckers like you and me. That's the mistake you have to learn how do deal with. And there's a punishment to make sure you learn it. If it looks like you're probably going to have a 100ft+ putt after going for the green, if that's the risk you're taking, then you have to recognize it, accept it and deal with it. That's the course management you have to learn. The rule is fair. It applies equally to everyone at all times. It could not be more fair. We're all aware of the rule. If you think you're going to be 100 feet away, then lay up. Sometimes bad things do happen - that's golf. That's the game. And to be clear, when there's a big green on a par 5 and I know I'm probably going to be left with a very long putt - and I'm talking 50 feet or more - I lay up.
cool. i disagree with you that it's as simple as that, or as easy to work out as that.
I'm an attacking, risk-taking player, and i'm fine with the outcome of that; i don't feel i need to learn what course management is; does phil mickleson? (we can all still improve of course!) But that's not really what's being discussed here. It's about whether the 100ft rule works in the context of green setups and the mechanics of the game.
Im an attacking risk taking player and im fine with the outcome of that, until you leave yourself 100 feet, learn what course management is, seriously? Using a real golfer to use as an example is pointless when the game is not the same. again dont put yourself 100 feet away and your be fine.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jun 5, 2019 10:02:52 GMT -5
cool. i disagree with you that it's as simple as that, or as easy to work out as that.
I'm an attacking, risk-taking player, and i'm fine with the outcome of that; i don't feel i need to learn what course management is; does phil mickleson? (we can all still improve of course!) But that's not really what's being discussed here. It's about whether the 100ft rule works in the context of green setups and the mechanics of the game.
Im an attacking risk taking player and im fine with the outcome of that, until you leave yourself 100 feet, learn what course management is, seriously? Using a real golfer to use as an example is pointless when the game is not the same. again dont put yourself 100 feet away and your be fine. We're still going in this?? Might just be time to say "agree to disagree..." I very rarely leave myself with 100ft putts, often leave myself with 40-60ft putts. 100ft putts CAN be close to impossible to play, they aren't impossible IRL. Changing it to 80ft would make a considerable difference, in my opinion... It's NOT about course management. Saying don't leave yourself 100ft putts is asinine. It's GOING to happen, so can we make sure there's a fair limit...
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Post by grinder12000 on Jun 5, 2019 11:46:32 GMT -5
LOL - well - let be chime in for one second. This all started when I posted a photo showing I was chipping from 100 feet. The WEIRD thing is it was EXACTLY 100 feet and the double weird thing was it's happened twice in back to back tournaments EXACTLY 100 feet.
NOW what we have learned is that someone see a GHOST chip on the green can not see the distance WITH elevation so we can not use that as a parameter, period. If there is no way to enforce distance AND elevation - you just can not do it.
As far as course management. I complained once about getting stuck in rocks, trying to get out and then TRYING to take an unplayable lie which as we all know is impossible after one attempt. You have to purposely hit into the water. When a guy said next time use better course management . . .well . . . you can imagine how I felt about this guy saying something like that.
I'm not sure ANYBODY looks at a green and figures out where the 100 foot line is.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Jun 5, 2019 11:53:10 GMT -5
This all started when I posted a photo showing I was chipping from 100 feet. Actually, the current round of what I now realize is a pointless debate started here
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Post by paulus on Jun 5, 2019 11:55:51 GMT -5
I've change my vote to leave as is, having been swayed by a few of the more compelling arguments in it's favour. Complex rules with potential grey areas are never great.
If people do get an unreachable putt - if they record the video showing it - I think that should act as adequate evidence to avoid the DQ imho. If you get pulled up by another member and don't have a video to show - eat the DQ.
So, I will continue to chip if I do get one I can't reach and argue my case when it happens - that will happen sometime in 2021-22 based on the current rate <-- main reason why it doesn't seem necessary to change the rule
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Post by Koop on Jun 5, 2019 12:08:15 GMT -5
I have often laid up on a reachable par 5 simply because I would rather have a full lob wedge into the green than putt a 75 ft putt for eagle. The odds are in my favor with me getting closer to the pin with a wedge at a given distance that I am good at then attempting a super long putt.
I believe good course management and knowing your own strengths and weaknesses are very important..... just my opinion
I would say leave it as is or simply say NO chipping if your ball is on the green. (Ball on fringe, then chip or putt is allowed.)
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AngusMoses
Caddy
Posts: 41
TGCT Name: Angus Moses
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by AngusMoses on Jun 5, 2019 12:41:13 GMT -5
I long for three weeks ago...
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