Detroit Golf Club (3 versions)

[theclv24]

EDIT: All 3 versions are now available: Detroit Golf Club (North Course), Detroit Golf Club (South Course), Detroit GC (Rocket Classic). See subsequent posts for release details.

The first of 3 courses is now published. Detroit Golf Club (North Course).

While this year's PGA tournament will be played almost entirely on the North Course, this is not the tournament setup, and is more like the everyday play setup. While the course seems long enough at 7000 yards, most of the hazards off of the tee play at around 240-250 yards. Because of this, the experience isn't great with Master Clubs and driver off of the tee. I set up the waypoints to default to less than driver, which I recommend using if on Master Clubs. Otherwise, think about using less than master Clubs.

One other note, although not nearly as important. These two courses feature at least 100 houses surrounding the perimeter, if not 200. I've added quite a few, but I hit a point along one boundary of the South course where I didn't want to tax the course file any longer. Therefore, you won't see some houses where they should be in some locations, mostly on the South course, but I don't think it subtracts from the experience.

Next up, I need to set tees and pins for the South Course, and then playtest. It shouldn't take more than a day or two. Once that is finished, I will begin the composite tournament routing, and provide some details on what to expect this summer when the PGA Tour visits.

[theclv24]

Detroit Golf Club (South Course) is now published.

This is a much shorter course at 5989 yards and playing at par 68, so once again I recommend using less than driver or less than Master clubs for the best experience. From what I've read about the course, the club claims that the South greens are largely untouched, making them Donald Ross originals. It's also said that many members enjoy the South Course more because of it's shortness and quirk. From what I can tell you, it's mostly pretty easy in the game, but there are a handful of severe greens. I've tried to smooth out any real severe pins, so there shouldn't be any illegal pins by TGCT standards. Some are borderline though, fair warning. There are enough birdie opportunities on the course that it's best to survive and advance when facing those pins.

Here's a few random pics I put together:

The full plot, from the South facing up towards the North course. A sea of golf holes.


The saddle green at the 14th on the South. A cool and fun little green.



These tennis courts next to the North 10th tee took too damn long, so I had to take a picture.


Probably my favorite combo of land and bunkering on the property, the 6th hole on the North Course.


Another favorite, the volcano green par 3 3rd on the North. The par 5 5th green is in the background, another of the better greens on the property.


Another volcano green at the par 3 9th on the South. I think the collection of par 3's across both courses is probably the strength of the club.

[theclv24]

Now on to the fun part that I have been looking forward to, the tournament course. Here is a preview of the changes that will take place with the course: www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/2018/09/12/detroit-golf-club-play-7-300-yards-pga-tour-stop-here-complete-renovation-details/1282584002/

The article provides some exact yardages for some of the lengthened holes, but others don't have those details other than mentioning they have been lengthened, so I will use some creative license in those areas. I am looking to get the course into the 7300-7400 range, but may go longer if needed to ensure that the fairway hazards are in play on each hole with driver. I expect the area around holes 14-15 to try and recapture the party feel of the 17th hole at the old Buick Open in Flint, so I will see if I can cram that area with stands and suites.

I expect this to take a handful of days or less, and then this project will be complete. I don't know if after these changes the course will be challenging enough to use for the PGA event on TGC Tours, but that is the target.

[CiB0RG]

Looking forward to checking this out and seeing how close you can get to the tournament set up for June. I'll be on the grounds this year so I'll get to scope out how close you get!

Too bad the designer doesn't have a suburban backdrop!

[theclv24]

Mar 25, 2019 14:21:11 GMT -5 CiB0RG said:

Looking forward to checking this out and seeing how close you can get to the tournament set up for June. I'll be on the grounds this year so I'll get to scope out how close you get!

Too bad the designer doesn't have a suburban backdrop!

I'll just be watching on TV this year. I'm already taking time off at the beginning of that week for a trip up to Treetops, so I'll be back in Chicago when the actual tournament is going on.

[theclv24]

Detroit GC (Rocket Classic) will be published in a matter of minutes. This is my best attempt to predict how the course will be set up for the PGA Tour this summer. I have included the changes listed in the article in my previous post, along with a few changes of my own. Not that anyone will truly wish to compare this to my regular North Course, but I'll write down the changes I made here, and maybe they will be fun to revisit this summer after the tournament. 

The article states that the course will play somewhere around 7300 yards. If no changes were made to the fairway bunkers, I imagine most players will clear fairway bunkers easily on a lot of the holes that weren't lengthened. I won't know until tournament week if the bunkers were moved or if other holes were lengthened that are not mentioned, so I chose to lengthen some holes on my own to get up to 7456 yards.

Course length: 7456 yards Par: 72 Greens: 179ft (I had changed it to 187, but the speed became too severe for the greens and created too many illegal pins)

Hole 1 (Hole 8 on North Course) - 419yds - Par 4

The North Course’s eighth hole will be the tournament’s first hole, as it was in an earlier era at DGC. The hole is a par 4 that will be lengthened from its current 387 yards by way of a pushed-back tee designed to add muscle.

Pushing the tee straight back did not seem to be an option due to the way the road into the clubhouse runs behind the existing tee, so I had to push the tee right to add distance. The result is a 419 yard par 4 that brings the fairway bunkers into play with driver. 3 trees had to be removed to accommodate the tee, and a slight fade may be needed to play up the right side and avoid the bunkers.

Hole 2 (Hole 9 on the North Course) - 474 yds - Par 4

The current No. 9 becomes the PGA Tour players’ second hole.

The article does not mention any changes, but as is the fairway bunkers are nowhere in play. There isn't much room in this area for a new tee, but I squeezed one in to add about 15 yards. The fairway bunkers still really aren't in play.

Hole 3 (Composite of Hole 1 on North Course and Hole 1 on South Course) - 424yds - Par 4

The South Course’s first hole, a par 4, will function as the tournament’s third. There is a second wrinkle: It will be played from the North Course’s first-hole tee box, which will create a right-to-left, diagonal.

Following the setup listed above, the fairway bunker still was not in play with driver. I decided to place a tee closer to the clubhouse, where a small putting green currently exists.

Hole 4 (Hole 2 on North Course) - 625yds - Par 5

The North Course’s existing second hole will grow by some 75 yards to become a 625-yard, par-5, fourth.

This was a tricky one. The only way I could see to get to 625 was to use the existing tee of the South Course's 2nd hole, and play across the North Course's 1st green to the existing 2nd fairway. There are 4 trees to the right of the North's 1st green, and however they intend to lengthen the hole, I don't see how those trees can remain standing.

Hole 5 (Hole 3 on North Course) - 168yds - Par 3

No changes other than the hole order.

Hole 6 (Hole 4 on North Course) - 475yds - Par 4

The North’s current No. 4 will be the Rocket Mortgage Classic’s sixth, a brutish par-4 of 475 or 480 yards after the tee is extended 40 to 50 yards.

Pretty much exactly as it says above.

Hole 7 (Hole 5 on North Course) - 555yds - Par 5

The existing par-5 fifth becomes the tournament’s seventh hole, a dogleg-left with another lengthened tee bringing a blocking tree into the PGA Tour players’ picture.

I added about 40 yards here to get to 555, which brings the fairway bunker into play.

Hole 8 (Hole 6 on North Course) - 371yds - Par 4

The North’s sixth and seventh (tourney's No. 8 and 9) will play as they do now.

I think the only par 4 I didn't alter. The fairway bunkers can be cleared with driver, but a fairly tight fade is required.

Hole 9 (Hole 7 on North Course) - 206yds - Par 3

No changes other than hole order

Hole 10 - 429yds - Par 4

I added maybe 5 yards to the back tee, just to try and bring the bunkers into play. Depending on wind, should still be able to clear them with a draw most rounds.

Hole 11 - 233yds - Par 3

No changes. A tough little sucker.

Hole 12 - 467yds - Par 4

I added roughly 10 yards or so, and on most days the fairway bunker should be in play.

Hole 13 - 414yds - Par 4

No mention of changes here, but there is plenty of room behind the existing tee, and lengthening is most definitely needed if the fairway bunkers aren't moved. I believe I added about 30 yards.

Hole 14 - 570yds - Par 5



Fourteen will be a par-5, 570 yards, across the fronting pond.

This was a very short par 5, and I would have figured it would just play as a long par 4. There is lots of room behind the tee, though, so I added about 50 yards to get to the 570 number. Works well as a par 5 at this number.

Hole 15 - 162yds - Par 3



The course’s tournament calling-card — and potential oasis for tournament fans -— will be holes No. 14 through 18, which follow the current North Course routing. Here, you are destined to see bleachers and hospitality areas and a vista that can offer a three-hole bounty of green-and-tee visuals.

I expect this to be the party zone, so I added plenty of suites. Sort of a mini Scottsdale.

Hole 16 - 443yds - Par 4

No. 16, a par 4, will be lengthened some 40 yards

This was a tough squeeze to add 40 yards, but I found an area that's actually close to being between the 14th green and 15th tee. If this is where the tee goes, I expect this area to be even more of a party zone.

Hole 17 - 574yds - Par 5



the par-5 17th will be the now-existent long par-5 (573 yards)

There is a pond directly behind the tee here, so it really can't go longer. It plays long enough on the 2nd shot, but the fairway bunkers as is don't really come into play.

Hole 18 - 447yds - Par 4



The 18th is a par 4 that will be stretched 30 to 40 yards (to about 440 or a bit more) and then offer its two-tiered green and putting “valley” as something to consider when pin placements will mean everything — especially when tucked into the back right corner, as figures to be the strategy for Sunday’s final round. Having pins on the green’s top shelf, or stuck in front of the valley, means spin — how much to apply, or to avoid — will be heavy on the minds of PGA Tour players on their 18th-hole approaches.

Pretty much as the article states.

[LKeet6]

loved the north course. I'm liking the lidar courses way more than i thought i would. I like the "no frills" nature of them. Just real golf.

[theclv24]

Mar 28, 2019 3:51:42 GMT -5 LKeet6 said:

loved the north course. I'm liking the lidar courses way more than i thought i would. I like the "no frills" nature of them. Just real golf.

I actually enjoy frills, especially on an RCR. I'm just not so keen on courses that are all frills and no strategy.

As for DGC, I mostly took it on out of excitement for the PGA returning to Michigan, and was hoping to find an awesome historic Donald Ross course. I found some of the greens interesting, but I think possibly with changes over time and with the longer clubs, there is a little bit of lack of strategy to the course. I would love to see some strategic elements and angling introduced to the course if the pros keep visiting, rather than simply fairway bunker left, fairway bunker right, green bunker left, green bunker right. I really like the par 3's on both courses though, and I think between the two courses you could easily find 18 interesting holes.

[LKeet6]

What do you mean by "frills?" Coz I'm talking about planting, essentially. Or "eye candy" as people call it. I think the lidars still pop visually, but they're minimal, just the trees. And I really like that.

[theclv24]

Mar 28, 2019 9:54:33 GMT -5 LKeet6 said:

What do you mean by "frills?" Coz I'm talking about planting, essentially. Or "eye candy" as people call it. I think the lidars still pop visually, but they're minimal, just the trees. And I really like that.

I like when designers put in the time to make it feel like a real place. This generally entails making a realistic clubhouse, and tying the course into its surroundings. Without those details it can still feel like an autogen TGC course, regardless of how well the holes are designed. For RCR's, I want a little bit of the real life experience of what is going on in and around the course. 

What I don't mean is that courses need giant waterfalls and rocks. If it fits the environment of the course, then of course it's certainly fine, but forcing it in is, to me, the "eye candy" that you are referring to, and doesn't cover up for poor courses. I will say, thankfully, that most of the top fictional designers here that are good at eye candy are also pretty good at hole design.

[gamesdecent]

Mar 28, 2019 10:41:26 GMT -5 theclv24 said:

Mar 28, 2019 9:54:33 GMT -5 LKeet6 said:

What do you mean by "frills?" Coz I'm talking about planting, essentially. Or "eye candy" as people call it. I think the lidars still pop visually, but they're minimal, just the trees. And I really like that.

What I don't mean is that courses need giant waterfalls and rocks.

[chadgolf]

Mar 28, 2019 10:41:26 GMT -5 theclv24 said:

What I don't mean is that courses need giant waterfalls and rocks.

I feel personally attacked.

[Deleted]

What a lovely set of courses. I played pinset 1 of each course in medium winds with max firm and max speed of green settings in TST style because I’m a sadist.

I preferred the Rocket setup as that felt more PGA Tour standard - which is obviously what you were going for. Wish we were playing this tournament on the TST tour now...

I shot:

64 (South)
70 (North)
68 (Rocket)

Loved it immensely. Thank you. CLV and Lidar is a match made in heaven!!

PS...I enjoyed it so much that I went back and played all pinsets on the Rocket. 68/66/68/69 (-17).

[theclv24]

Apr 1, 2019 14:03:37 GMT -5 oswinner said:

What a lovely set of courses. I played pinset 1 of each course in medium winds with max firm and max speed of green settings in TST style because I’m a sadist.

I preferred the Rocket setup as that felt more PGA Tour standard - which is obviously what you were going for. Wish we were playing this tournament on the TST tour now...

I shot:

64 (South)
70 (North)
68 (Rocket)

Loved it immensely. Thank you. CLV and Lidar is a match made in heaven!!

PS...I enjoyed it so much that I went back and played all pinsets on the Rocket. 68/66/68/69 (-17).

Oh nice, I forgot about TST! Hopefully the tournament setup will work for the TST event in late June. I don't know if it will challenge the regular PGA guys enough, maybe it will, who knows, but hopefully it should be right in TST's wheelhouse.

Thanks for playing!

[theclv24]

Me: I don't see how they could fit grandstands around the 17th green, so I'll just put them on the other side of the 18th tee.

Mar 27, 2019 21:13:23 GMT -5 theclv24 said:

Hole 17 - 574yds - Par 5

PGA Tour: Backboarding for life!