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Post by TROWELHEAD on Feb 11, 2015 11:58:33 GMT -5
it can be done! stop knocking them down and kicking them! I was being generous with the top 10 Europe players. I'll b generous by saying the hori only comes out on the critical shots now impossible to prove or disprove .With that i 've shown u the same courtesy as u in the above
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 11, 2015 12:05:04 GMT -5
Well i view this as about as honest as wind waiting. You are taking an easier route that many others wouldn't do. Nothing illegal, but morally...questionable. what planet are you from? you crossed over 2 events, does that mean you cheated yourself? i mean come on, why else would you cross over? I crossed over because I liked the course in the Euro better the second time, the first cause I wasn't in the invitational. I didn't cross over cause it was "easier" to place higher so I could get into some invitational. I plan to cross over again for the Joburg Open cause I think the format is cool and it will be a challenge. Speaking of the invitational, 100 people in the field, 60 from fed-ex and euro and 5 from champion tour. So 35 from WGR. You would think that the 60 who are invited would be among the top 60 in WGR, so we are looking at 60-95 WGR most likely getting an invite. Considering I took a week off, I'll probably drop from my current 84th ranking. Personally I would rather play the PGA next week at The Bavaro and do well to see if i can get a higher rank in the WGR, than to try and hit top 5-10 on Euro. That is easier.
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Post by bentfivewood on Feb 11, 2015 12:21:18 GMT -5
To put this issue to rest, there is a significant difference to these two scenarios:
1. We would like to eliminate wind waiting but cannot currently police it in a feasible and responsible way, so we don't.
2. Crossing over tours is 100% allowed and encouraged by TGCTOURS so if a loophole is discovered and exploited, it's still within the rules.
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 11, 2015 12:34:55 GMT -5
To put this issue to rest, there is a significant difference to these two scenarios: 1. We would like to eliminate wind waiting but cannot currently police it in a feasible and responsible way, so we don't. 2. Crossing over tours is 100% allowed and encouraged by TGCTOURS so if a loophole is discovered and exploited, it's still within the rules. Seriously? If there were enough people on tour upset about people crossing over to take advantage of a loophole or if the admin felt it was being abused (like chipping on greens) there would be a new rule about it within a week. You don't get to say on one hand that crossing over is legal, so if a loophole is discovered and exploited it is still within the rules, but then say, Chipping on the green, even though it is legal, was being exploited and thus we cut it off via a rule. An exploit is an exploit, be it wind waiting, crossing over or chipping on the greens. It is wrong. While I agree you can't police the wind waiting, you could very easily police crossing over to exploit a weaker field. Personally i have nothing against crossing over to play, but it is obvious that the Euro tour is a weaker tour and to have a player who is in the upper tiers of the WGR say, "Hey wanna join me but aren't good enough to get there via the PGA... go join the Euro tour this week cause it is a weaker field and you have a better chance at getting into the WGR that way." What I objected to was this is an insult to so many players, especially on the Euro Tour. While it is an obvious exploit, it is still an exploit and by him pointing it out in such a poor fashion really sends the message that the PGA tour is so much better than the Euro tour, which I think is false and unfair.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 12:58:35 GMT -5
I wouldn't be getting too bent out of shape Brighttail, it looks as though you'd have to finish 1st or 2nd to even get enough money to be in the Top 30 of the money list for the year and that still might not be enough as 30 players could already have more winnings than what the top 2 could make.
Anyway, Red Diamond is a very easy course and to get in the top 2 you'd probably have to score -54 (I can easily see -58 or better winning). I can't see someone who is outside of the FedEx top 30 beating out 2 of the better players on the Euro Tour (It's not as weak as what some make out it to be). They'd be better served playing in the PGA event as they may crack the FedEx Top 30 or get better strength of field points for a top 100 WGR.
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 11, 2015 13:04:03 GMT -5
My point is we are supposed to be promoting harmony and unity within the golfing nation. I find it unsettling that anyone would suggest what was suggested. While it may be technically accurate the unintended (or hell maybe it was intended) consequences is it makes people on the Euro tour feel diminished by one of the top players on the PGA tour. We shouldn't be doing that.
Besides, the second message it gives is, "Hey PGA players, go over to the Euro tour, play well and you can take a spot away from one of the Euro tour people cause you aren't good enough to get there on your own tour." Completely the wrong message in my opinion.
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Post by bentfivewood on Feb 11, 2015 13:09:50 GMT -5
To put this issue to rest, there is a significant difference to these two scenarios: 1. We would like to eliminate wind waiting but cannot currently police it in a feasible and responsible way, so we don't. 2. Crossing over tours is 100% allowed and encouraged by TGCTOURS so if a loophole is discovered and exploited, it's still within the rules. Seriously? If there were enough people on tour upset about people crossing over to take advantage of a loophole or if the admin felt it was being abused (like chipping on greens) there would be a new rule about it within a week. You don't get to say on one hand that crossing over is legal, so if a loophole is discovered and exploited it is still within the rules, but then say, Chipping on the green, even though it is legal, was being exploited and thus we cut it off via a rule. An exploit is an exploit, be it wind waiting, crossing over or chipping on the greens. It is wrong. While I agree you can't police the wind waiting, you could very easily police crossing over to exploit a weaker field. Personally i have nothing against crossing over to play, but it is obvious that the Euro tour is a weaker tour and to have a player who is in the upper tiers of the WGR say, "Hey wanna join me but aren't good enough to get there via the PGA... go join the Euro tour this week cause it is a weaker field and you have a better chance at getting into the WGR that way." What I objected to was this is an insult to so many players, especially on the Euro Tour. While it is an obvious exploit, it is still an exploit and by him pointing it out in such a poor fashion really sends the message that the PGA tour is so much better than the Euro tour, which I think is false and unfair. I'm not advocating exploit of a loophole. Im saying that it would be within the rules. Wind waiting IS a problem right now. Crossing over to exploit a loophole is not. We could probably make 30 more rules based on what might happen but that would be silly.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Feb 11, 2015 13:14:34 GMT -5
My point is we are supposed to be promoting harmony and unity within the golfing nation. I find it unsettling that anyone would suggest what was suggested. While it may be technically accurate the unintended (or hell maybe it was intended) consequences is it makes people on the Euro tour feel diminished by one of the top players on the PGA tour. We shouldn't be doing that. As a Joe Average Euro player i didn't feel dminished by it, i just found it funny that he thought it was an "easy" route in when for the reasons Chris stated, it's far from it. Besides, the WGR strength of field system is clearly working. I've played exclusively on the Euro tour and am 37th on the money list, but my WGR is 95. Unless i have a very good week at Red Diamond i probably won't make the WGC. Meanwhile the "equivalent" guy who is 37th in the Fedex is ranked 32 so is pretty much already in.
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Post by bentfivewood on Feb 11, 2015 13:19:46 GMT -5
My point is we are supposed to be promoting harmony and unity within the golfing nation. I find it unsettling that anyone would suggest what was suggested. While it may be technically accurate the unintended (or hell maybe it was intended) consequences is it makes people on the Euro tour feel diminished by one of the top players on the PGA tour. We shouldn't be doing that. As a Joe Average Euro player i didn't feel dminished by it, i just found it funny that he thought it was an "easy" route in when for the reasons Chris stated, it's far from it. Besides, the WGR strength of field system is clearly working. I've played exclusively on the Euro tour and am 37th on the money list, but my WGR is 95. Unless i have a very good week at Red Diamond i probably won't make the WGC. Meanwhile the "equivalent" guy who is 37th in the Fedex is ranked 32 so is pretty much already in. True enough. I've crossed over twice and never cracked the top ten. For most golfers here, crossovers hurt more than help but the perception is otherwise. I thought that myself and did not get the anticipated outcome.
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 11, 2015 13:28:18 GMT -5
My point is we are supposed to be promoting harmony and unity within the golfing nation. I find it unsettling that anyone would suggest what was suggested. While it may be technically accurate the unintended (or hell maybe it was intended) consequences is it makes people on the Euro tour feel diminished by one of the top players on the PGA tour. We shouldn't be doing that. As a Joe Average Euro player i didn't feel dminished by it, i just found it funny that he thought it was an "easy" route in when for the reasons Chris stated, it's far from it. Besides, the WGR strength of field system is clearly working. I've played exclusively on the Euro tour and am 37th on the money list, but my WGR is 95. Unless i have a very good week at Red Diamond i probably won't make the WGC. Meanwhile the "equivalent" guy who is 37th in the Fedex is ranked 32 so is pretty much already in. Great! Now how would you feel if 40 PGA players came over to play Red Diamond who normally wouldn't? They would make your job a lot harder. I'm not saying this is against the rules, but this is what is being advocated. I would hate to see some Euro players who have played hard on their tour loyally miss out cause PGA folks are switching over. Shrugs. Good luck all anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 13:45:45 GMT -5
Only 3 PGA players have signed up for Red Diamond at the moment anyway out of the 142 registered and their WGR's are 19, 136 and 188 so it won't be making any difference to the top 100 in all likelihood.
As Scott just stated, its harder for the crossover players to get a result than they may be thinking. I just looked and out of the 5 events so far 8 crossover players from PGA to Euro have a Top 10 (Doyley winning twice) and that includes the huge number that came over in Week 1. So far there have been 5 Euro players to make the top 10 when crossing over to the PGA
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Feb 11, 2015 13:49:15 GMT -5
As a Joe Average Euro player i didn't feel dminished by it, i just found it funny that he thought it was an "easy" route in when for the reasons Chris stated, it's far from it. Besides, the WGR strength of field system is clearly working. I've played exclusively on the Euro tour and am 37th on the money list, but my WGR is 95. Unless i have a very good week at Red Diamond i probably won't make the WGC. Meanwhile the "equivalent" guy who is 37th in the Fedex is ranked 32 so is pretty much already in. Great! Now how would you feel if 40 PGA players came over to play Red Diamond who normally wouldn't? They would make your job a lot harder. I'm not saying this is against the rules, but this is what is being advocated. I would hate to see some Euro players who have played hard on their tour loyally miss out cause PGA folks are switching over. Shrugs. Good luck all anyway. Personally more concerned by the 33 exemptions coming to take my place in the top 50
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Post by bentfivewood on Feb 11, 2015 14:13:18 GMT -5
As a Joe Average Euro player i didn't feel dminished by it, i just found it funny that he thought it was an "easy" route in when for the reasons Chris stated, it's far from it. Besides, the WGR strength of field system is clearly working. I've played exclusively on the Euro tour and am 37th on the money list, but my WGR is 95. Unless i have a very good week at Red Diamond i probably won't make the WGC. Meanwhile the "equivalent" guy who is 37th in the Fedex is ranked 32 so is pretty much already in. Great! Now how would you feel if 40 PGA players came over to play Red Diamond who normally wouldn't? They would make your job a lot harder. I'm not saying this is against the rules, but this is what is being advocated. I would hate to see some Euro players who have played hard on their tour loyally miss out cause PGA folks are switching over. Shrugs. Good luck all anyway. But you don't see how this benefits you. The more elite players that play in a tourney, the higher the SOF. What good is a top 10 if it came against a field that was made artificially weaker because of some rule we make up? The fact is, you play better and you get better results. I welcome as many top ayers to my tournaments because it gives me a better sense of where I really stand.
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Post by firstblitzer on Feb 11, 2015 16:05:45 GMT -5
My point is we are supposed to be promoting harmony and unity within the golfing nation. I find it unsettling that anyone would suggest what was suggested. While it may be technically accurate the unintended (or hell maybe it was intended) consequences is it makes people on the Euro tour feel diminished by one of the top players on the PGA tour. We shouldn't be doing that. As a Joe Average Euro player i didn't feel dminished by it, i just found it funny that he thought it was an "easy" route in when for the reasons Chris stated, it's far from it. Besides, the WGR strength of field system is clearly working. I've played exclusively on the Euro tour and am 37th on the money list, but my WGR is 95. Unless i have a very good week at Red Diamond i probably won't make the WGC. Meanwhile the "equivalent" guy who is 37th in the Fedex is ranked 32 so is pretty much already in. I just saw it as a PGA Tour member doing a bit of light-hearted trash talking on the euro tour members, , and as a result, hypersensitive I will go out of my way to find something to offend me brighttail, got his knickers in a twist and had a bit of cry ...... did anybody else, in all honesty see anything else, brighttail excluded of course?
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Post by Doyley on Feb 11, 2015 16:12:47 GMT -5
Great! Now how would you feel if 40 PGA players came over to play Red Diamond who normally wouldn't? They would make your job a lot harder. I'm not saying this is against the rules, but this is what is being advocated. I would hate to see some Euro players who have played hard on their tour loyally miss out cause PGA folks are switching over. Shrugs. Good luck all anyway. If those 40 players increase the SoF I would see that as an opportunity to gain more WGR points but with the added challenge of having to play better. If those 40 don't increase SoF, then nothing really changes assuming you are ranked higher.
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