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Post by Cyclerob on Dec 24, 2018 23:48:03 GMT -5
I just want to thank all you guys complaining about the flick swing in the hope HB will do something about it. I decided I would it’s something I do unintentionally maybe on a quarter of my shots and it stems from trying to play the pro clubs in TGC2, I’m now making sure I hold my stick forward at its finish position with a deliberate movement and believe it or not I’m actually hitting the ball straighter and with less tempo issues because it’s a deliberate action. 👍 As scary as it may sound in my case, when I can achieve the hold my stick part, I'm noticing the same thing! |
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Post by Brighttail on Dec 25, 2018 22:16:17 GMT -5
HB also sanctions angle snapping and doesn't care or patrol their own societies for straight shooters, but more on that later.
The API has always been mainly about two thins:
1. Identifying those folks that have a swing that is considered impossible to produce or replicate by something other than aides of some sort. (Think scripts, angle snapping ect). These are the shots that are usually straight as an arrow or have the same deviation from center over and over again. There really isn't anything arbitrary about this first grouping because either the deviation is 0.0 or the identical deviation down to the sixth or seventh decimal point which is pretty improbably that two shots would be so exact, especially in a single round.
2. Too consistent grouping. The second is not as cut n dry. It is a scenario that has been seen when controllers start having dead zones or has an older mouse and their shots continually show up in a one or two tight groups where 95+% of their shots all fall into these parameters. Not necessarily anything illicit the player is doing. As stated it is usually equipment that is either starting to go dead or is already malfunctioning.
The unfortunate part is one person falls into group two and doesn't really have a reason to be in the group. The equipment seems fine and it just happens they are hitting quality shots. I seem to remember Brad Garcia was considered one of the best controller shooters when it came to lowest deviation of shots in TGC 2. He got tagged once by failing the API as did a few others in a similar situation. The issue is what do the admin do when they see a graph that SCREAMS faulty equipment or equipment that may have dead spots but that turns out NOT to be the case? Could the person be that good? Perhaps. I mean in TGC 2019 if they were to look at Brad and realize they have 4-5 years of data on him, they can generally see that he has been pretty darn consistent, so maybe he is that good.
Suddenly you see another person, first time in the leagues and they are hitting it as good and very similar to Brad. Hardly any data but the same mini investigation is that, nothing really seems amiss. Now multiple these two cases by a few dozen and you got a quandary.
For me the best thing the Admin can do is see how the thousands upon thousands of charts they see each week stack up. Get a median of the numbers and divide these people in to smaller groups. Good, better, elite and "howindaf***?" From there you gotta start whittling them down and at some point you are going to have to pick a line, a number or numbers and draw the line in the sand. In the end some will play some games and step over that line with dishonest results. Other times some one might play the game of their live and cross that line. There will be friendly fire, there will be casualties. It is an imperfect system of perfect numbers being interpreted by imperfect beings doing their best.
For me, bottom line, whether or not HB sanctions these short swing isn't the issue. It is the data thy produce for the admin to use. HB doesn't really care how you swing. Turn angle snapping on, use scripts that will make your swing the same, they don't care because they have really nothing on the line. The ONLY time HB cared about straight swinging was when they were doing the 1/2 and 1/2 competitions and there were prizes for the winners. Other than that, all HB cares about is people having fun, however they do it and so long as they aren't hacking into the game, it is fine by them.
So good luck those that flick. HB isn't going to fix the API cause they don't think it is broke and thus it will be up to TGCT to see how they will change anything, but I think they are pretty set in how they are doing things now. So use at your own risk and good luck out there!
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Post by GW_Hope on Dec 26, 2018 10:06:15 GMT -5
I am moving on from the issue. I was hoping for a reasonable compromise. I had hoped HB would have adjusted the downswing window from roughly 70%-100% to 80-90%. So anything that didn’t reach 80% wouldn’t register a DS and anything over 90% wouldn’t calculate into accuracy. It would have made things tolerable. Flickers would have to push the stick a bit more and full swing wouldn’t get penalized for deviations while hitting the plastic.
That said the judgement had been made so time to move on.
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Post by PMGS247 on Dec 26, 2018 11:09:59 GMT -5
I remember taking the mental mindset of flicking all the way back in the first TGC. Seems effectively the same now as it ever was. While I do take a "flick" mental approach, that's just to say I don't want to hold the stick at the top at all. Generally I still hit the top and register a complete swing-line, but I do occasionally get the short swing by accident. To be clear, I've hit my fair share of sideways shots with a short swing, both tempo and swing-line based.
As HB said when I've tried to do it intentionally but it's actually quite difficult to pull off. It's a marginal impact to accuracy, far from a free pass even when the length is perfectly executed, and it would take a lot of practice to get the motion down so well that it's not distracting from tempo and straightness.
Try to get a fast/perfect with a short swing-line with any regularity, good luck....I'm going to need a lot of practice to get to that level of concentration & control. If someone can pull this off and secure whatever the % increase in accuracy is, I tip my cap to them. When I try for it, it just makes things worse. To me this is a fairly high level skill that people who can pull it off have earned, and ultimately aren't getting nearly the amount of advantage (relative to how they would perform without it) that people who aren't able to do it seem to assume they do. I would argue if you somehow nerfed this, the leaderboards would still look about the same.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 14:10:40 GMT -5
Try to get a fast/perfect with a short swing-line with any regularity, good luck.... Fast/Perfect is very easy to do. Just start your downswing a little before the club hits the apex (top) of the swing. Equivalent of starting the DS a bit "early". I am what is referred to as a "flicker" or whatever, btw. |
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Post by PMGS247 on Dec 26, 2018 14:18:32 GMT -5
Try to get a fast/perfect with a short swing-line with any regularity, good luck.... Fast/Perfect is very easy to do. Just start your downswing a little before the club hits the apex (top) of the swing. Equivalent of starting the DS a bit "early". I am what is referred to as a "flicker" or whatever, btw. Agreed. I do it on virtually every drive to get a few more yards. My point was there’s enough concentration going on with that swing that it’s actually quite a lot to ask to pull off a short swing at the same time. Flick <> short-swing. |
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Dec 26, 2018 15:26:44 GMT -5
Try to get a fast/perfect with a short swing-line with any regularity, good luck.... Fast/Perfect is very easy to do. Just start your downswing a little before the club hits the apex (top) of the swing. Equivalent of starting the DS a bit "early". I am what is referred to as a "flicker" or whatever, btw.
Yeah on a full swing just watch your character and start the downswing when the hands get shoulder high, swing through normally. I can get fast / perfect almost every time or just as consistent as I can get perfect / perfect
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Dec 26, 2018 15:30:12 GMT -5
So what is TGC stance on this swing? Will short flickers be pulled up with the API check? Same as before I presume, short swinging itself has never been a factor in the API policy, it's whether you produce a super-tight dispersion chart that looks like the below. Loads of PS4 players have a short swing but only a handful are capable of producing such results even on their best day: 
this may be a dumb question but is there a way to view your own chart other than the admins showing it to you? I am confused how some people have access to their dispersion
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 8:20:01 GMT -5
this may be a dumb question but is there a way to view your own chart other than the admins showing it to you? I am confused how some people have access to their dispersion
No, one of the admins posted that chart in the forum as a one-off example of dispersion tighter than a gnat's chuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 9:07:30 GMT -5
I liken the flick to really releasing the club quick through impact in real life. And pushing it through, holding it to the top of the plastic, as steering the ball in real life. Or at least that's how I'm justifying using it. Plus it's still a very difficult game even if you get p/p all the time.
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Post by hippystein on Dec 31, 2018 9:00:23 GMT -5
Short swing dispersion is irrelevant as it goes laser straight completely against what it says on the api so its just glorified straight shooting. Ive seen top ten players hit it with more wonky lines than you could imagine in streams and it flies as true as you like. The api registers how offline it is but the ball has zero deviation off the club. Game is broke. No skill at all just short swing it and its like rory. It must be an easy game when all youve got to think about is tempo.
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Post by flyingj75 on Dec 31, 2018 11:15:27 GMT -5
Agreed. Short swing accomplishments are...shall we say, tainted. Convince yourselves all you want that you have figured out something that makes you "better" at the game. It is not the way the game was intended to be played and the results are illegitimate no matter what HB or the API says. I enjoy the game, I love TGCTours. I play the game as intended and when I hit it offline I hit it offline. Nothing personal against anyone that uses the short swing, but I believe you are kidding yourself with what ever successes that our obtained while using this method.
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Post by GW_Hope on Dec 31, 2018 11:28:26 GMT -5
I had contemplated switching to that swing but decided against it. The game is more fun to me as “designed”. I have some friends who play the same as me and many other who I know play as I do. That’s all I really pay attention to and all we can do. I know that the game was changed for the worse and exposed this game flaw so no blame to those that have always used it.
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Post by PMGS247 on Jan 3, 2019 10:00:53 GMT -5
Overall just keep the terms "flick" and "short swing" separate, and I'm good. These two things are not the same. All short swings are flicks, not all flicks are short swings.
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