|
Post by fondername0 on Jan 21, 2015 14:58:21 GMT -5
I'm in desperate need of help adding serious depth to my bunkers. I can't wait to check out some of the fickett tutorial videos when they are available. But in the meantime can someone give me a step by step process of how to get seriously deep bunkers? Also my shaping needs some work. I watched the HB tutorial and am using that technique right now but am not very satisfied. They look alright until I load up some of these 5 star courses and then mine by comparrison are very flat looking. Need Help thanks in advance For reference, check out a hole or 2 on "The Storm Coast" or "Cours De Cinq-Mars" to get an idea of where I am coming up short on bunker design
|
|
reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
|
Post by reebdoog on Jan 22, 2015 12:52:36 GMT -5
bunkering is an interesting thing as there is no one way to do them for every situation. I'll give you a couple of ideas anyway. For bunkers near the fairway you don't want them to be massively deep on most courses. There are always times where that's not true but for the most part just getting them into the ground a little is enough. If your bunkers have a lot of shape to them (fingers, wavy areas and the like) then try this: go to the flatten tool and get the soft round brush (first brush in your list). Take that and make the soft edge of the circle just slightly overlap the bunker into the rough. Now lower it anywhere from .25 all the way to 1 meter depending on the depth you want and flatten that section. Then move the circle until you get a nice smooth look and do it again. Keep going like that around the bunker. You don't need to keep the depth setting the same on your brush either. Play with it to get the look right. After you do that you'll want to go around the outside of the bunker with the soft longer brush and see if any areas need to be raised or smoothed out a bit to give it a good drop into the bunker. There are times you will want one side to be flat to the ground and the other to be higher...play with it a bit. If you have a bunker near a green that you want to be deeper here's the best thing I've come up with: Drop your bunker but PLEASE don't do it TOO close to the green or you'll get some odd results and screw your green up. Give it room to breathe. Your shapes here should be more simple (round, oval, figure 8 shape...that kind of thing). Take that same shape and use your flatten tool. Make it just SLIGHTLY larger than the bunker (take a look from a side view to see how it's handling the sand)and lower it however much you like. I wouldn't go TOO far...but whatever you think is best. Flatten it. Now keep the same shape, make it slightly SMALLER than the bunker edge and flatten again but only lower it like .15 as this is just to give it a little extra shape. YOU ARE NOT DONE AT THIS POINT...to many people stop here. Get a round soft brush and your flatten tool and pick the side of the bunker away from the green. Get that brush close enough to the bunker to just gently lower that edge and make it a smoother transition and then flatten. Do that around the bunker a little bit if you want a softer edge. Go ahead and let the brush touch the sand a little if you want one side to have the sand slightly higher. You'll get the hang of it. That's really all you need. There's no secret to it other than that.
|
|
|
Post by fondername0 on Jan 26, 2015 11:27:40 GMT -5
Nice. I will try that for sure. Thank you!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 0:32:04 GMT -5
Sprinkle a little taste on them and they are instantly fixed, that's what I do!
|
|
reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
|
Post by reebdoog on Jan 28, 2015 10:52:25 GMT -5
I tried Taste Buds once...totally different reaction...and my tongue was all gritty after...
|
|
|
Post by hhatch on Mar 1, 2015 8:33:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the bunker tips. They are starting to have a more sculpted look. Finished my first course, but I'm not going to publish yet. I'll make a couple more learn some more techniques and then go back and correct some things.
Henry
|
|
|
Post by edi_vedder on Mar 1, 2015 23:47:50 GMT -5
Have you seen that video already?
|
|
|
Post by Errol1967 on May 25, 2017 6:53:31 GMT -5
bunkering is an interesting thing as there is no one way to do them for every situation. I'll give you a couple of ideas anyway. For bunkers near the fairway you don't want them to be massively deep on most courses. There are always times where that's not true but for the most part just getting them into the ground a little is enough. If your bunkers have a lot of shape to them (fingers, wavy areas and the like) then try this: go to the flatten tool and get the soft round brush (first brush in your list). Take that and make the soft edge of the circle just slightly overlap the bunker into the rough. Now lower it anywhere from .25 all the way to 1 meter depending on the depth you want and flatten that section. Then move the circle until you get a nice smooth look and do it again. Keep going like that around the bunker. You don't need to keep the depth setting the same on your brush either. Play with it to get the look right. After you do that you'll want to go around the outside of the bunker with the soft longer brush and see if any areas need to be raised or smoothed out a bit to give it a good drop into the bunker. There are times you will want one side to be flat to the ground and the other to be higher...play with it a bit. If you have a bunker near a green that you want to be deeper here's the best thing I've come up with: Drop your bunker but PLEASE don't do it TOO close to the green or you'll get some odd results and screw your green up. Give it room to breathe. Your shapes here should be more simple (round, oval, figure 8 shape...that kind of thing). Take that same shape and use your flatten tool. Make it just SLIGHTLY larger than the bunker (take a look from a side view to see how it's handling the sand)and lower it however much you like. I wouldn't go TOO far...but whatever you think is best. Flatten it. Now keep the same shape, make it slightly SMALLER than the bunker edge and flatten again but only lower it like .15 as this is just to give it a little extra shape. YOU ARE NOT DONE AT THIS POINT...to many people stop here. Get a round soft brush and your flatten tool and pick the side of the bunker away from the green. Get that brush close enough to the bunker to just gently lower that edge and make it a smoother transition and then flatten. Do that around the bunker a little bit if you want a softer edge. Go ahead and let the brush touch the sand a little if you want one side to have the sand slightly higher. You'll get the hang of it. That's really all you need. There's no secret to it other than that. Would love to see this...I think I saw once a video on youtube, but cant find it, think it was yours Reeb, but love to see another video ðŸ¤
|
|
|
Post by TreeWood on May 25, 2017 11:43:13 GMT -5
Would love to see this...I think I saw once a video on youtube, but cant find it, think it was yours Reeb, but love to see another video 🤠Errol.... check out Reeb's Twitch channel. His latest archived vid is all on bunkering. .
|
|
|
Post by Errol1967 on May 25, 2017 12:28:35 GMT -5
Would love to see this...I think I saw once a video on youtube, but cant find it, think it was yours Reeb, but love to see another video 🤠Errol.... check out Reeb's Twitch channel. His latest archived vid is all on bunkering. . Yeah I saw that one allready...tnx
|
|
|
Post by Errol1967 on May 25, 2017 13:04:11 GMT -5
Would love to see this...I think I saw once a video on youtube, but cant find it, think it was yours Reeb, but love to see another video 🤠Errol.... check out Reeb's Twitch channel. His latest archived vid is all on bunkering. . Btw...Reebdoog has an incredible amazing voice. He would defo fit into the commentary of tv shows or movies.
|
|
|
Post by Errol1967 on May 25, 2017 14:10:28 GMT -5
reebdoog At the moment you were live, I was watching one of your other video on twitch. What I like to see is where you place bunkers on the green and landingarea and on what distance etc. Maybe a quick one hole design? Just when you have time...I understand you have kids and a wife also:)...anyway...nice intro with that amazing voice hahaha...love it.
|
|
reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
|
Post by reebdoog on May 25, 2017 14:13:42 GMT -5
reebdoog At the moment you were live, I was watching one of your other video on twitch. What I like to see is where you place bunkers on the green and landingarea and on what distance etc. Maybe a quick one hole design? Just when you have time...I understand you have kids and a wife also:)...anyway...nice intro with that amazing voice hahaha...love it. see new thread bubba.
|
|
|
Post by mav78 on May 28, 2017 14:37:13 GMT -5
When I saw this I thought that's an odd question for this game as what does the depth of sand matter. That's how simple I am. Anyway, for the record its 6 inches treaded to 4, maybe 5-3 on the faces so the ball is less likely to plug on the face giving an awkward lie and more likely to roll to the centre so all golfers deal with the same shot.
That last bit is important in modern golf, with the huge amounts of money they play for. Golf has that mantra of the "luck of the bounce", which is a big part of the game, obviously, but, until only recently, tournament courses are built to a fairly level playing field so 'luck' - such as being stuck against a bunker face like in links - is alleviated, which is why modern courses tend to have expansive bunkers.
My favourite type of bunker for modern design is shallow nearest the fairway and then gradually getting deeper the further away - off line - from the fairway you go, thus punishing the more errant shot. I had to build one of the these with a digger last month and it's pretty damn awkward to get them levels right but rewarding when you see the finished article.
As for the depth of bunkers well then it's really dependant on how you want your course to play. Forgetting the computer game and coming from a real life angle I like the 'half shot' penalty. I think that's fair. This allows the golfer to get maybe as much as a 7 iron on it so while not reaching the green you can get it a good 100+ yards down the fairway. Links golf, with it's deep riveted faced bunkers (layers of stacked turf) are more often than not a full shot penalty, meaning the golfer has to 'splash' out and be pretty much the same distance away, effectively a penalty shot. Going back to fairness in competition: the best player may be two shots ahead playing the last and land against one of these faces taking maybe two at least to get out, where his nearby competitor doesn't get as badly punished for the same errant shot and ends up beating him by one. We accept and enjoy luck as part of the game but really it does border on unprofessional.
Bunkers should always bowl, especially at the back end as they generally slope up at the face and without the back end raising slightly the ball can roll against the back lip. This is easy to do on the game: run the smooth brush around the sand of the bunker and then take the squarer edged brush and run it slowly - without too much depth at first as it's easier to go lower than raise back up - where you want the faces to rise.
Although I don't really adhere to this as I think it can give desired character to a course, especially natural sandy deposits used well (see Whistling Straights, Pinehurst, and the amazing Ellie Cliffs - a TGC course) I don't believe any bunker should be built without some sort of architectural significance. I see so many that don't appear to be there for a reason that I think people find them aesthetically pleasing. I don't, I think generally there ugly. I much rather see a quirky contour. There exceptions to this as I put but generally you should only place them if they are:
1. Part of the strategic design.
2. Serve as a retaining bunker. This basically means stopping balls that may roll down banks onto areas they aren't wanted. For example, in between a green and the next tees, so to stop the ball rolling down onto them; or maybe into long rough, thus causing slow play as golfers search. These are more common than you think and around the green almost essential on certain terrains to avoid areas where loose impediments may scatter all over the green on chip shots. It helps keep the play confined to 'greenside'
3. Used as deception. This probably overlaps with strategic as it tries to influence the way a hole is played. If a bunker is placed 20 yards from a green for instance then it may, on first play at least, fool the golfer into thinking it's a greenside bunker which ironically may lead him to take less club and actually land it that bunker, or at least only land on the approach to the green, beyond. These are less common now thanks to strokesavers but links courses will have many.
4. Lots of courses will have to deal with buildings springing up next to them. Imagine a new house built down the right of a hole, where everyone normally slices into that vicinity. Putting a bunker down the right side will cause people to play more left thus lower the chances of hitting the house. I call them diversion bunkers.
5. Drainage believe or not. If you have a natural wet, clay, soggy area then adding bunkers almost act as manholes. The particle size of the sand is most important here though. It needs a good percolation rate to allow water to pass freely and quickly and coarse sand is best for this.
That's a few I can't think of anymore right now but there is.
As usual I'm banging about real life perspective but it's my two pence worth anyway. Just for the record: even a small bunker over the course of a few years can cost in the thousands, if you take into account the initial outlay; sand, sand replenishment, manpower, drainage, etc. If unnecessary, unless it's a championship course with a huge budget then it's not really worth it.
|
|
|
Post by Errol1967 on May 28, 2017 14:58:25 GMT -5
When I saw this I thought that's an odd question for this game as what does the depth of sand matter. That's how simple I am. Anyway, for the record its 6 inches treaded to 4, maybe 5-3 on the faces so the ball is less likely to plug on the face giving an awkward lie and more likely to roll to the centre so all golfers deal with the same shot. That last bit is important in modern golf, with the huge amounts of money they play for. Golf has that mantra of the "luck of the bounce", which is a big part of the game, obviously, but, until only recently, tournament courses are built to a fairly level playing field so 'luck' - such as being stuck against a bunker face like in links - is alleviated, which is why modern courses tend to have expansive bunkers. My favourite type of bunker for modern design is shallow nearest the fairway and then gradually getting deeper the further away - off line - from the fairway you go, thus punishing the more errant shot. I had to build one of the these with a digger last month and it's pretty damn awkward to get them levels right but rewarding when you see the finished article. As for the depth of bunkers well then it's really dependant on how you want your course to play. Forgetting the computer game and coming from a real life angle I like the 'half shot' penalty. I think that's fair. This allows the golfer to get maybe as much as a 7 iron on it so while not reaching the green you can get it a good 100+ yards down the fairway. Links golf, with it's deep riveted faced bunkers (layers of stacked turf) are more often than not a full shot penalty, meaning the golfer has to 'splash' out and be pretty much the same distance away, effectively a penalty shot. Going back to fairness in competition: the best player may be two shots ahead playing the last and land against one of these faces taking maybe two at least to get out, where his nearby competitor doesn't get as badly punished for the same errant shot and ends up beating him by one. We accept and enjoy luck as part of the game but really it does border on unprofessional. Bunkers should always bowl, especially at the back end as they generally slope up at the face and without the back end raising slightly the ball can roll against the back lip. This is easy to do on the game: run the smooth brush around the sand of the bunker and then take the squarer edged brush and run it slowly - without too much depth at first as it's easier to go lower than raise back up - where you want the faces to rise. Although I don't really adhere to this as I think it can give desired character to a course, especially natural sandy deposits used well (see Whistling Straights, Pinehurst, and the amazing Ellie Cliffs - a TGC course) I don't believe any bunker should be built without some sort of architectural significance. I see so many that don't appear to be there for a reason that I think people find them aesthetically pleasing. I don't, I think generally there ugly. I much rather see a quirky contour. There exceptions to this as I put but generally you should only place them if they are: 1. Part of the strategic design. 2. Serve as a retaining bunker. This basically means stopping balls that may roll down banks onto areas they aren't wanted. For example, in between a green and the next tees, so to stop the ball rolling down onto them; or maybe into long rough, thus causing slow play as golfers search. These are more common than you think and around the green almost essential on certain terrains to avoid areas where loose impediments may scatter all over the green on chip shots. It helps keep the play confined to 'greenside' 3. Used as deception. This probably overlaps with strategic as it tries to influence the way a hole is played. If a bunker is placed 20 yards from a green for instance then it may, on first play at least, fool the golfer into thinking it's a greenside bunker which ironically may lead him to take less club and actually land it that bunker, or at least only land on the approach to the green, beyond. These are less common now thanks to strokesavers but links courses will have many. 4. Lots of courses will have to deal with buildings springing up next to them. Imagine a new house built down the right of a hole, where everyone normally slices into that vicinity. Putting a bunker down the right side will cause people to play more left thus lower the chances of hitting the house. I call them diversion bunkers. 5. Drainage believe or not. If you have a natural wet, clay, soggy area then adding bunkers almost act as manholes. The particle size of the sand is most important here though. It needs a good percolation rate to allow water to pass freely and quickly and coarse sand is best for this. That's a few I can't think of anymore right now but there is. As usual I'm banging about real life perspective but it's my two pence worth anyway. Just for the record: even a small bunker over the course of a few years can cost in the thousands, if you take into account the initial outlay; sand, sand replenishment, manpower, drainage, etc. If unnecessary, unless it's a championship course with a huge budget then it's not really worth it. Interesting arcticle. Saw some of your courses and I like how you did your bunkers...looks awsome. Did you create Davies?
|
|