CC am

[scoops]

Promotion/demotion suggestion

I would like to suggest monthly movement instead of weekly, now hear me out on this.

I love the game. To make it better for me would be the social aspect so to speak. Too much movement, you lose track of players and not enough people talk in the forums.

If, for example you stay on a tour flight for 4 events then at the end of the fourth the top 10 players move up a flight and bottom 10 move down it would create more completion between flights, you’d start to know each other, have some banter and look out for rival scores etc. The exception being tournament winners would still move up on a week to week basis.

Just a raw thought but there is something there, what do you guys think? Maybe just trial it for cc am

[jacobkessler]

That just wouldn’t work... some people will suddenly figure something out in their game and then dominate if they don’t move up... that’s just not fun for others. Plus, a lot of guys will get an exemption, fail, get another one, etc. until they finally make it. This practice will eventually let a player keep their card and begin working for the next flight. Imagine getting that chance only once a month. Honestly, there’s just not as much movement as you think... just my 2¢ though

[scoops]

Mar 16, 2018 6:31:39 GMT -5 jacobkessler said:

That just wouldn’t work... some people will suddenly figure something out in their game and then dominate if they don’t move up... that’s just not fun for others. Plus, a lot of guys will get an exemption, fail, get another one, etc. until they finally make it. This practice will eventually let a player keep their card and begin working for the next flight. Imagine getting that chance only once a month. Honestly, there’s just not as much movement as you think... just my 2¢ though

You misunderstood or I didn’t explain it well enough.
If you win the event you go up.
The rest, at the end of the month the top 10/15 whatever number that are top of the points list- points accumulated that month in their flight will go up. Rewards consistency rather than a lucky week and those that go up would therefore have a better chance of staying up.

But the biggest plus again is for me is social and competitively. I’d prefer to battle a group of players for 4 weeks and see who comes out on top than play a brand new group every week

[Deleted]

Mar 16, 2018 18:26:42 GMT -5 scoops said:

Mar 16, 2018 6:31:39 GMT -5 jacobkessler said:

That just wouldn’t work... some people will suddenly figure something out in their game and then dominate if they don’t move up... that’s just not fun for others. Plus, a lot of guys will get an exemption, fail, get another one, etc. until they finally make it. This practice will eventually let a player keep their card and begin working for the next flight. Imagine getting that chance only once a month. Honestly, there’s just not as much movement as you think... just my 2¢ though

You misunderstood or I didn’t explain it well enough.
If you win the event you go up.
The rest, at the end of the month the top 10/15 whatever number that are top of the points list- points accumulated that month in their flight will go up. Rewards consistency rather than a lucky week and those that go up would therefore have a better chance of staying up.

But the biggest plus again is for me is social and competitively. I’d prefer to battle a group of players for 4 weeks and see who comes out on top than play a brand new group every week

This is too slow of a promotion method.  I get what you are going for in having people coming together in a community format monthly.  The returns over a long period of time here at TGCT show that moving players on the lower tiers promptly upwards largely is accurate.  If you slow that aspect, you have to slow demotions as well to balance.  If adjustments are deemed necessary, then adjusting the percentage on exemptions, single strike line can be done as long as adjusting the hard coded finishing position of the double strike line is done as well (*cough cough* nearly 200 players in CC-E this week *cough cough* with a 100th finish being the 2X strike line)

Your method, while I understand what you are going for, is too slow, IMO of course, to reflect true skill level and also to fill the Pro tours of Web and above.

[Deleted]

Mar 16, 2018 18:26:42 GMT -5 scoops said:

Mar 16, 2018 6:31:39 GMT -5 jacobkessler said:

That just wouldn’t work... some people will suddenly figure something out in their game and then dominate if they don’t move up... that’s just not fun for others. Plus, a lot of guys will get an exemption, fail, get another one, etc. until they finally make it. This practice will eventually let a player keep their card and begin working for the next flight. Imagine getting that chance only once a month. Honestly, there’s just not as much movement as you think... just my 2¢ though

You misunderstood or I didn’t explain it well enough.
If you win the event you go up.
The rest, at the end of the month the top 10/15 whatever number that are top of the points list- points accumulated that month in their flight will go up. Rewards consistency rather than a lucky week and those that go up would therefore have a better chance of staying up.

But the biggest plus again is for me is social and competitively. I’d prefer to battle a group of players for 4 weeks and see who comes out on top than play a brand new group every week

I also want to say this to you...

Input here is greatly appreciated.  You have valid points.  I feel the same issue you bring up about having a good week applies to the highest end promotion method, PGA to World Tour...  I still think having a PGA member finish within the Top 20 on World Tour (when they play the same course) is just a bit too soft for keeping skill level accurate.  It may fit well for numbers sake as far as Doyley is concerned, but I think Top 15 or even 12 is better.

I am pushing an agenda here in your thread, and I apologize, but pointing these things out helps in the long run as I think Doyley and other Tim has a master vision of the tours top to bottom and has done pretty darned well in the past 3+ years in achieving that.

Good luck out there on the course!

[TTTMFJ2K]

Screw it, daily promotion! Battle it out on the golf course like Fight Club!

In all seriousness though, there needs to be a different way for promotions and especially tie breakers. Promotion wise, maybe actually make the money list important. Maybe have the top 5 in money list at the end of the season get bumped up. Yes, if you finish at the top 10 percent you get bumped up, but if someone is consistently in the top 25 and moving up on the money list for the flight, maybe place some emphasis on that.

Tie breakers have to be addressed and they have to be realistic too. I shouldn't have lost a tournament where I was leading through 3 rounds going into the 4th, and because someone holes out on a par 5 for double eagle just because of that. Either start off by who had the lowest round between the people who were tied, or go based on who had the lowest score on the hardest handicap starting with the first round.

[scoops]

Mar 17, 2018 13:25:38 GMT -5 TTTMFJ2K said:

Screw it, daily promotion! Battle it out on the golf course like Fight Club!

In all seriousness though, there needs to be a different way for promotions and especially tie breakers. Promotion wise, maybe actually make the money list important. Maybe have the top 5 in money list at the end of the season get bumped up. Yes, if you finish at the top 10 percent you get bumped up, but if someone is consistently in the top 25 and moving up on the money list for the flight, maybe place some emphasis on that.

Tie breakers have to be addressed and they have to be realistic too. I shouldn't have lost a tournament where I was leading through 3 rounds going into the 4th, and because someone holes out on a par 5 for double eagle just because of that. Either start off by who had the lowest round between the people who were tied, or go based on who had the lowest score on the hardest handicap starting with the first round.

Kinda what I was going for. Making the money list more important and rewarding consistency rather than a week to week thing.

[TTTMFJ2K]

Mar 17, 2018 16:13:36 GMT -5 scoops said:

Mar 17, 2018 13:25:38 GMT -5 TTTMFJ2K said:

Screw it, daily promotion! Battle it out on the golf course like Fight Club!

In all seriousness though, there needs to be a different way for promotions and especially tie breakers. Promotion wise, maybe actually make the money list important. Maybe have the top 5 in money list at the end of the season get bumped up. Yes, if you finish at the top 10 percent you get bumped up, but if someone is consistently in the top 25 and moving up on the money list for the flight, maybe place some emphasis on that.

Tie breakers have to be addressed and they have to be realistic too. I shouldn't have lost a tournament where I was leading through 3 rounds going into the 4th, and because someone holes out on a par 5 for double eagle just because of that. Either start off by who had the lowest round between the people who were tied, or go based on who had the lowest score on the hardest handicap starting with the first round.

Kinda what I was going for. Making the money list more important and rewarding consistency rather than a week to week thing.

Its pointless and wastes the time of whoever calculates that if it’s not important.

[ErixonStone]

All members of the Challenge Circuit are placed on a master money list. There isn't a dedicated money list for just CC-C, for example. At the end of the season, the Challenge-Circuit Playoffs are used to earn promotions to Web.com.

The biggest challenge is that TGCTours wants to send players to an appropriate flight at quickly as possible. We don't want higher-skilled players languishing on CC-E for several weeks before they get promoted to CC-D where they sit for a few weeks. We want players, as they improve their game, to be challenged each and every week. We also want players who are struggling to participate in as fair a competition as possible, so it's important to move highly-skilled players out of the lower ranks quickly.

Therefore, the process in place is aimed at moving players upwards through the flights towards CC-A, and offering larger purses for those competing at the highest flights of CC.

[ErixonStone]

Mar 17, 2018 13:25:38 GMT -5 TTTMFJ2K said:

I shouldn't have lost a tournament where I was leading through 3 rounds going into the 4th, and because someone holes out on a par 5 for double eagle just because of that. Either start off by who had the lowest round between the people who were tied, or go based on who had the lowest score on the hardest handicap starting with the first round.

Even if we took the scores on the final 18 holes, the result would have been the same. The tiebreaker procedure isn't perfect, but there isn't a significantly better option out there. Should it be hole-by-hole count-back (the system in place today)? Should it be lowest final 9-hole score? Lowest final round? Lowest round all week?

Getting tied players together for a playoff isn't doable with players' time restrictions and the restrictions on society events (not to mention TGCT admin resources). So, some pre-determined playoff system has to be in place. Hole-by-hole count-back is what we've got which puts increasing importance on those final holes of the week.