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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 12, 2018 11:10:39 GMT -5
Designers,
Thought it might be interesting to hear what are the favourite holes that you’ve designed?
If possible provide some pictures and some reasons why so we can all understand the thoughts behind the design.
Par3: Par4: Par5: Overall:
I’lol go first:
Par 3: 17th at Ollie Links. Being a relatively short par 3 this hole gets its teeth from a small, sloping and slightly angled green surrounded with steep banks of fairway on all sides. In a high wind, having to float a lofted iron up into the air is an unnerving shot. Missing the green leaves a hole slew of diabolical chip shots up a steep bank. Once on the green the slopes can leave some delicate putts. It’s pretty penal and brutal. And generally I’m not really into that school of thought. But, what makes this hole work well in my opinion is it’s position in the round. It’s right near the end and is followed by a relatively easy short par 5 18th. It’s a hole that if you can par it you are in a great position to close out your round. If you double it then the pressure is on to make a great score in 18. Looking at the post tournament stats this hole is always the toughest on the course with a lot of birdies but even more doubles.
Par4: this is a tough one.6th hole at Reverand Green. This is a hole that exemplifies my approach to design. Off the tee you are given multiple options off the tee, each with risk and reward. I laid the fairway over a side hill and created I high side on the left and low side to the right bisected by a centreline bunker. Beyond those two choices there is an additional sling shot between the centreline bunker and bunkers on the left that if executed will careen down the hill and leave a short iron approach. I like how depending on your tee shot you can have anything from a long iron to a short iron in your hands. The back of the green is designed to feed balls to pin locations around the water and the front of the green is canted toward the water so that bail out shots will be left with awkward putts or chips down the slope. I like to design holes that reward aggressive shots but allow recovery for the more conservative player ..
Par5: 17th hole Sandbelt. This is a hole that looks innocent enough but can really cause some problems if you’re not careful. The tee shot is angled to The right with a centreline bunker guarding the most direct angle to The green. The safer drive to the right of the bunker leads to an approach partially obscured by tall trees. However the fairway leading up to the green is canted which allows a run up sh%$ to feed into the front pin locations. The difficulty of the hole lies in the ravine that fronts the tee shot landing zone. If you miss the fairway on your tee shot clearing the ravine becomes questionable depending on your lie. At best, the approach clears the ravine to a pitched fairway beyond that leaves an awkward shot into a big but heavily contoured green that requires a precise shot to hold the ball on the right tier. When I look at tournament stats I always see a bunch of big numbers on this one, which is a challenge given the hole is a very reachable par 5 which doesn’t rely on water to make it risky. Visually speaking I like the green site tucked into a grove of trees surrounded by a bunch of bunkers.
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Post by jacobkessler on Mar 12, 2018 11:49:31 GMT -5
Great idea! Although there are plenty of designers that are better than me on many different levels, there are still some holes of mine that I really enjoy. Par 3: Hole 12 at Columbia Pines As you know, my par 3s aren’t exactly that exciting. I feel like the only thing people remember about this course is the “mistake” I made with the houses on four holes lol... but this is one of my favorite holes. I personally really like what I did with the rocks here, but again, that’s just me. Par 4: Hole 13 at Mt. Kessler I feel like people, including myself, forget about this course. The area around this hole and 14 is actually the reason I created the course... I wanted a mountainous course where once hole hits over another. This hole is the lower part of that duo. Par 5: Hole 3 at Indian Run This was the easiest choice. I take pride in my par 5s, but this hole is simply the best of mine (IMO). Inspired by the 5th and 15th holes at Muirfield Village, this hole features a tee shot over the corner of some trees, like 5 at Muirfield. Then, the fairway is split like 15, before an uphill approach. I just love this hole, almost as much as I love Muirfield Village (but not quite). Overall: Hole 3 at Indian Run
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 13, 2018 10:59:59 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Jacob! It’s great to see the holes that is designers take pride in. Those are some really cool holes. That par 3 has a really nice elegant feel to it. On that par 4 did the holes cross over each other ? I’ve done that on a few of my courses and there is a history of it in real golf. It’s quirky move that few modern architects would do though simply due to safety reasons. Not a concern in virtual golf! I’ll have to give them a play. Great idea! Although there are plenty of designers that are better than me on many different levels, there are still some holes of mine that I really enjoy. Par 3: Hole 12 at Columbia Pines As you know, my par 3s aren’t exactly that exciting. I feel like the only thing people remember about this course is the “mistake” I made with the houses on four holes lol... but this is one of my favorite holes. I personally really like what I did with the rocks here, but again, that’s just me. Par 4: Hole 13 at Mt. Kessler I feel like people, including myself, forget about this course. The area around this hole and 14 is actually the reason I created the course... I wanted a mountainous course where once hole hits over another. This hole is the lower part of that duo. Par 5: Hole 3 at Indian Run This was the easiest choice. I take pride in my par 5s, but this hole is simply the best of mine (IMO). Inspired by the 5th and 15th holes at Muirfield Village, this hole features a tee shot over the corner of some trees, like 5 at Muirfield. Then, the fairway is split like 15, before an uphill approach. I just love this hole, almost as much as I love Muirfield Village (but not quite). Overall: Hole 3 at Indian Run
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Post by jacobkessler on Mar 13, 2018 11:43:06 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Jacob! It’s great to see the holes that is designers take pride in. Those are some really cool holes. That par 3 has a really nice elegant feel to it. On that par 4 did the holes cross over each other? I’ve done that on a few of my courses and there is a history of it in real golf. It’s quirky move that few modern architects would do though simply due to safety reasons. Not a concern in virtual golf! I’ll have to give them a play. Great idea! Although there are plenty of designers that are better than me on many different levels, there are still some holes of mine that I really enjoy. Par 3: Hole 12 at Columbia Pines As you know, my par 3s aren’t exactly that exciting. I feel like the only thing people remember about this course is the “mistake” I made with the houses on four holes lol... but this is one of my favorite holes. I personally really like what I did with the rocks here, but again, that’s just me. Par 4: Hole 13 at Mt. Kessler I feel like people, including myself, forget about this course. The area around this hole and 14 is actually the reason I created the course... I wanted a mountainous course where once hole hits over another. This hole is the lower part of that duo. Par 5: Hole 3 at Indian Run This was the easiest choice. I take pride in my par 5s, but this hole is simply the best of mine (IMO). Inspired by the 5th and 15th holes at Muirfield Village, this hole features a tee shot over the corner of some trees, like 5 at Muirfield. Then, the fairway is split like 15, before an uphill approach. I just love this hole, almost as much as I love Muirfield Village (but not quite). Overall: Hole 3 at Indian Run Yep, they did! Kind of a strange, fantasy thing. The par 4 was in a valley between two mountains, with the next hole’s tee box and green on either side. EDIT: found this pic from a while back of the two:
EDIT EDIT lol:
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Mar 13, 2018 18:40:16 GMT -5
Great thread idea. I've only released three courses, but here are three of my favorite holes: Par 3: 5th at Twin Canyons GC - 165 yards: The green for this hole sits on the rim of one of the courses two canyons with a rocky wall on the right side of the green. The ridge jutting into the middle of the green can be used as a backstop to access the right side hole locations and can also be used to feed the ball to back left hole locations (if you don't have the guts to take on the canyon directly ). Par 4: 18th at West Neck Golf Links - 395 yards: This is the finisher on my first design and, although I didn't nail the execution (the front hole location is sort of iffy), I love the setting and the design of the hole. The tee shot is from the shoreline in the distance next to some overgrown sand dunes. You can lay back with a fairway wood or you can try and fit a driver in between the bunker on the left and the estuary that cuts across the hole. The green is raised above its surroundings and can be tough to hit on a windy day. When the hole is on the right (as pictured) and the wind is blowing in off the sea, you may have to start your approach shot out over the beach if you want to get close. Par 5: 4th at The Aventinus Club - 560 yards: This hole has an extremely wide playing corridor and there are many ways to play the hole. You may want to consider where the pin is before deciding whether to play left or right of the two central bunkers with your tee shot. This green site was one of the first ones I found when I inspected the plot when I saw this ledge-like landform overlooking a deep pit which became the waste bunker. Once again, whether you play left or right will depend on the hole location. Overall: Honestly I don't know if one of these three holes is even my favorite, but I didn't want one course to be over-represented.
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Post by jacobkessler on Mar 13, 2018 18:46:48 GMT -5
Ah, you’re the one who did Aventinus. Well done, enjoyed my round!
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 13, 2018 20:08:48 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. Love the angles into the par 4 hole you’ve shown. Both the right and left pin locations look precarious but could be handled with a well placed tee shot. The par 5 looks very cool. From what I can see it looks like the width of the fairway allows for a wide angle of approach that will favour either the right or left pins. Do you have an overhead picture of the hole? I’m with you on choosing holes. I don’t have any absolute favourites but thought it might be worth throwing some holes out there for discussion. Great thread idea. I've only released three courses, but here are three of my favorite holes: Par 3: 5th at Twin Canyons GC - 165 yards: The green for this hole sits on the rim of one of the courses two canyons with a rocky wall on the right side of the green. The ridge jutting into the middle of the green can be used as a backstop to access the right side hole locations and can also be used to feed the ball to back left hole locations (if you don't have the guts to take on the canyon directly ). Par 4: 18th at West Neck Golf Links - 395 yards: This is the finisher on my first design and, although I didn't nail the execution (the front hole location is sort of iffy), I love the setting and the design of the hole. The tee shot is from the shoreline in the distance next to some overgrown sand dunes. You can lay back with a fairway wood or you can try and fit a driver in between the bunker on the left and the estuary that cuts across the hole. The green is raised above its surroundings and can be tough to hit on a windy day. When the hole is on the right (as pictured) and the wind is blowing in off the sea, you may have to start your approach shot out over the beach if you want to get close. Par 5: 4th at The Aventinus Club - 560 yards: This hole has an extremely wide playing corridor and there are many ways to play the hole. You may want to consider where the pin is before deciding whether to play left or right of the two central bunkers with your tee shot. This green site was one of the first ones I found when I inspected the plot when I saw this ledge-like landform overlooking a deep pit which became the waste bunker. Once again, whether you play left or right will depend on the hole location. Overall: Honestly I don't know if one of these three holes is even my favorite, but I didn't want one course to be over-represented.
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 13, 2018 20:10:41 GMT -5
Ah ha. That’s wild! You wouldn’t even know if the guy above was hitting his shot! Good stuff. Thanks for sharing Jacob! It’s great to see the holes that is designers take pride in. Those are some really cool holes. That par 3 has a really nice elegant feel to it. On that par 4 did the holes cross over each other? I’ve done that on a few of my courses and there is a history of it in real golf. It’s quirky move that few modern architects would do though simply due to safety reasons. Not a concern in virtual golf! I’ll have to give them a play. Yep, they did! Kind of a strange, fantasy thing. The par 4 was in a valley between two mountains, with the next hole’s tee box and green on either side. EDIT: found this pic from a while back of the two:
EDIT EDIT lol:
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Mar 13, 2018 20:23:53 GMT -5
Great idea! Although there are plenty of designers that are better than me on many different levels, there are still some holes of mine that I really enjoy. Par 3: Hole 12 at Columbia Pines As you know, my par 3s aren’t exactly that exciting. I feel like the only thing people remember about this course is the “mistake” I made with the houses on four holes lol... but this is one of my favorite holes. I personally really like what I did with the rocks here, but again, that’s just me. Par 4: Hole 13 at Mt. Kessler I feel like people, including myself, forget about this course. The area around this hole and 14 is actually the reason I created the course... I wanted a mountainous course where once hole hits over another. This hole is the lower part of that duo. Par 5: Hole 3 at Indian Run This was the easiest choice. I take pride in my par 5s, but this hole is simply the best of mine (IMO). Inspired by the 5th and 15th holes at Muirfield Village, this hole features a tee shot over the corner of some trees, like 5 at Muirfield. Then, the fairway is split like 15, before an uphill approach. I just love this hole, almost as much as I love Muirfield Village (but not quite). Overall: Hole 3 at Indian Run Glad you liked TAC, Kessler. Thanks for playing. I think the rock wall on your par 3 looks very good. Made me think of 17 at Quail Hollow. Is Indian Run just on TGC1? The name sounds familiar.
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Post by jacobkessler on Mar 13, 2018 20:37:55 GMT -5
Great idea! Although there are plenty of designers that are better than me on many different levels, there are still some holes of mine that I really enjoy. Par 3: Hole 12 at Columbia Pines As you know, my par 3s aren’t exactly that exciting. I feel like the only thing people remember about this course is the “mistake” I made with the houses on four holes lol... but this is one of my favorite holes. I personally really like what I did with the rocks here, but again, that’s just me. Par 4: Hole 13 at Mt. Kessler I feel like people, including myself, forget about this course. The area around this hole and 14 is actually the reason I created the course... I wanted a mountainous course where once hole hits over another. This hole is the lower part of that duo. Par 5: Hole 3 at Indian Run This was the easiest choice. I take pride in my par 5s, but this hole is simply the best of mine (IMO). Inspired by the 5th and 15th holes at Muirfield Village, this hole features a tee shot over the corner of some trees, like 5 at Muirfield. Then, the fairway is split like 15, before an uphill approach. I just love this hole, almost as much as I love Muirfield Village (but not quite). Overall: Hole 3 at Indian Run Glad you liked TAC, Kessler. Thanks for playing. I think the rock wall on your par 3 looks very good. Made me think of 17 at Quail Hollow. Is Indian Run just on TGC1? The name sounds familiar. Yeah, IRCC is only on TGC1, but B.Smooth13 redesigned it and published it in TGC2. It’s called “Indian Pass G.C. (Tour)”
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Mar 13, 2018 21:21:56 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. Love the angles into the par 4 hole you’ve shown. Both the right and left pin locations look precarious but could be handled with a well placed tee shot. The par 5 looks very cool. From what I can see it looks like the width of the fairway allows for a wide angle of approach that will favour either the right or left pins. Do you have an overhead picture of the hole? I’m with you on choosing holes. I don’t have any absolute favourites but thought it might be worth throwing some holes out there for discussion. Great thread idea. I've only released three courses, but here are three of my favorite holes: Par 3: 5th at Twin Canyons GC - 165 yards: The green for this hole sits on the rim of one of the courses two canyons with a rocky wall on the right side of the green. The ridge jutting into the middle of the green can be used as a backstop to access the right side hole locations and can also be used to feed the ball to back left hole locations (if you don't have the guts to take on the canyon directly ). Par 4: 18th at West Neck Golf Links - 395 yards: This is the finisher on my first design and, although I didn't nail the execution (the front hole location is sort of iffy), I love the setting and the design of the hole. The tee shot is from the shoreline in the distance next to some overgrown sand dunes. You can lay back with a fairway wood or you can try and fit a driver in between the bunker on the left and the estuary that cuts across the hole. The green is raised above its surroundings and can be tough to hit on a windy day. When the hole is on the right (as pictured) and the wind is blowing in off the sea, you may have to start your approach shot out over the beach if you want to get close. Par 5: 4th at The Aventinus Club - 560 yards: This hole has an extremely wide playing corridor and there are many ways to play the hole. You may want to consider where the pin is before deciding whether to play left or right of the two central bunkers with your tee shot. This green site was one of the first ones I found when I inspected the plot when I saw this ledge-like landform overlooking a deep pit which became the waste bunker. Once again, whether you play left or right will depend on the hole location. Overall: Honestly I don't know if one of these three holes is even my favorite, but I didn't want one course to be over-represented. Here an overhead of 4 at Aventinus. You can see that the left route may be favorable if the pin is left while the right route is favored if the pin is right. If you miss the fairway with your tee shot, do you try and place your second shot near the large bunker or lay back safely?
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 14, 2018 0:12:09 GMT -5
Great to see the overall concept. Love the bunkers. I get it now. I like the way that large bunker stretches well in front of the green. Like you said it really forces the player to consider the angle off the tee. I actually had an idea like this for a hole but instead of a bunker it would be I giant fairway mound that could be used to bank shots if played from the right angle but could also deflect shots if played from the wrong one. Thanks for posting. I’ll try to add some pictures of my own shortly. Thanks for sharing. Love the angles into the par 4 hole you’ve shown. Both the right and left pin locations look precarious but could be handled with a well placed tee shot. The par 5 looks very cool. From what I can see it looks like the width of the fairway allows for a wide angle of approach that will favour either the right or left pins. Do you have an overhead picture of the hole? I’m with you on choosing holes. I don’t have any absolute favourites but thought it might be worth throwing some holes out there for discussion. Here an overhead of 4 at Aventinus. You can see that the left route may be favorable if the pin is left while the right route is favored if the pin is right. If you miss the fairway with your tee shot, do you try and place your second shot near the large bunker or lay back safely?
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 14, 2018 8:40:03 GMT -5
Cool idea. I'll throw a few out that I have pictures of since I'm not at home, and may add one or two more later since I'm not able to really show the entirety of the hole in these pictures that come from the course's published threads: Par 4 10th @ Indian Pass:I love the strategy of short par 4's, and that's something I really didn't "get" until I happened into creating this one by chance (wasn't pre-planned out, just came together as I was designing). Basically, 3 of the 4 pin positions - especially the 2 that are on the left side of the green - make driving the reachable right hand side of the green result in actually a more challenging second shot than if you lay up and pitch. But who doesn't like driving the green on a par 4? So just having that simple gut reaction "go for it" available to the player, not thinking ahead a shot and positioning yourself correctly off of the tee makes the hole a lot more challenging than the 3w-pitch-putt birdie it should be. Par 4 11th (I think...) @ Routledge CC:This is the only hole on the back 9 that was an "original" design, not having been sketched out by anyone participating in the sketch-a-hole WIP concept. One of the reasons I love this hole is because of how naturally it came together. I knew where I wanted the tee and just moved the camera into position, trying to envision what the hole should look like, and immediately saw this. Playability wise, it's no gimme. You can challenge the water with driver off the tee, but anything into a moderate breeze makes reaching the necessary landing point incredibly difficult. If you bail out left off the tee with driver WITHOUT shaping it left-to-right, the ball will run into the rough or bunker across the fairway. So off the tee it's really a question of risk and trust in the swing you're going to make, and more often than not I've noticed people bailing left and ending up in the rough, playing off of a severe sideslope. The green is tiered primarily front-to-back, with a small bunker helping guard pins on the right side. A well played tee shot should give anywhere from an 8i to wedge into the green, and it's vital to be playing from the fairway so you're able to get enough spin on the ball to stop it from releasing down the tilted green tiers. Par 5 18th @ Pauseburgh Metro:The final hole on Pauseburgh is, for most, a 3 shotter due to the unique green shape and contours which make threading the needle with 3w in hand an extreme challenge - especially since it plays slightly uphill to an even more elevated green with fall-off's around most of the surface. I kind of lucked into the view from the tee (I sense a theme here) since I wasn't really thinking about that while I was designing, it just happened to work out well, but in doing so learned a lot about how to design for those views. The play from the tee is straight forward, just a driver to a fairly generous landing area - this hole is all about the strategy of the player's 2nd shot, and how well they are able to execute a risky play at the green in 2.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 15:08:20 GMT -5
This is a fantastic thread idea!
RESERVED: I’ll edit this later with my answers.
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Mar 15, 2018 15:38:23 GMT -5
Great to see the overall concept. Love the bunkers. I get it now. I like the way that large bunker stretches well in front of the green. Like you said it really forces the player to consider the angle off the tee. I actually had an idea like this for a hole but instead of a bunker it would be I giant fairway mound that could be used to bank shots if played from the right angle but could also deflect shots if played from the wrong one. Thanks for posting. I’ll try to add some pictures of my own shortly. Here an overhead of 4 at Aventinus. You can see that the left route may be favorable if the pin is left while the right route is favored if the pin is right. If you miss the fairway with your tee shot, do you try and place your second shot near the large bunker or lay back safely? That fronting mound concept is a nifty idea. Reminds me of the fourth at St. Andrews and the way Alister Mackenzie describes it in his book, "The Spirit of St. Andrews." I love when designers use ground contours to enforce strategy, especially when the contours on and around the green reward sound decision making all the way back on the tee. goo.gl/images/nKYidJ
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