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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 17:29:08 GMT -5
Erin Links vs Columbia Pines Golf Club *sigh*....this one had some back and forth, but in the end it was unanimous...and I really don't like having to do these kind of writeups because it just leaves everybody feeling dissatisfied. Had this been the Invicta, Erin Links had a chance to make some real noise. Given that this is a contest that specifically targets the CC ranks, it just doesn't hit the appropriate skill level...and the further we get into the contest the more that comes into play. That is in NO WAY an indictment on Steve's course here. It is technically well done, has some great shots and looks around the course, and can even use different tees to make it CC suitable...but the pins and greens are just a tad bit overcooked for me to claim I can use this on CC whether it be Pro or Am. As i said in round 1, I applaud Steve for doing what he does. He has his own style and makes no apologies for what he puts out, and that is to be commended. In no way do I want to give the impression that his course is not up to snuff in any way, it was just a case of every judge agreeing that it misses the mark on difficulty. I sincerely hope Steve comes back for the Invicta as he could be one of the names that nobody wants to see in their bracket, but we can't pass this one through in good conscience in round 2. I appreciate what you cooked up here, Steve...I really do. As stated, please come back around in the Invicta...it's a no-holes-barred affair with round robin groups where a course like this can really shine. Columbia Pines Golf Club advances |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 17:30:04 GMT -5
The Eighty-Eight Club vs Bearded Pelican Golf Links Judge #188 club The texture choices on this one kind of stood out as being a bit off. Mow lines are huge and the rough texture doesn’t seem to mesh well with the fairway/sand textures. Even if they are the same number...they just seem off. Fairways are far too bumpy for this style of course I think. Bunkers are big...a bit too big unless you want to incorporate them into the desert more. Also a little bath-tub...ish… There is some good sculpting in the surrounding hills/mountains. Some that’s not great but a lot that is. Specific shot issue, the blind tee shot on 3...Take that fairway out wider to the left or a little closer so it gives the illusion of a wide tee shot. Use of heavy rough as CONTRAST would have been nice on this course. It’s not easy to do but it makes a big difference if you can play the green and brown off of one another well. HOLY BACK BUNKER BATMAN! Hole 4 may need a fence back there! Someone gwanna DIED! Tee shots on this one are ok but there are a lot of missed opportunities to have made them shine. The course has some decent hole ideas but the execution is not quite where it needs to be. The scale of a lot of things seems off when playing. Fairways seem thin in places while bunkers seem massive. Same with elevations… Difficulty seems like it might be on the high end for the CC players. The course is very straightforward which is fine but it just lacks that “something special” to set it apart. Judge #2
88: Not a fan of the textures here... I don't think they really go all that well together. Things possibly seem a bit over sculpted at times (more thinking fairways here). The hole dynamics seem off.. sometimes large fairways and small bunkers, and other times tiny fairways and large bunkers. Probably spot on for cc pro in terms of difficulty. Solid effort... Griff:There's not many notes that can be added for Pelican on this one, and we finally have some comments of substance to throw out for Eighty-Eight as well. Misternic has a way of putting out sneaky good courses that often times fly under the radar. He came back to this year's Showdown with another solid entry. I often times wonder if misternic gets caught in the trap of trying to design towards what he thinks will fit the judge's tastes rather than running with his concept judging be damned, but that's just speculation on my part. There was definite improvement in bunker sculpting and and the blending of brushes, but some of the choices around the course just didn't "fit". Some was just the size of bunkers in relation to the fairway they were on, and while there's nothing technically wrong with that it does sometimes catch the eyeballs in a funky way. There was great sculpting going on off the playing surfaces, and he took great care to make the surroundings fit the style of course he was putting forth. Once again, just a solid, solid course for the judges to mull over. Sometimes it's hard to judge these kind of matchups because the courses are just so very different. When you judge like to like it's easier to compare and contrast the subtle differences. In this one we really had to take each course as a body of work and make decisions playability, aesthetics, and which combined the 2 in a better manner. Neither should hang their head in this one as both courses were very solid beginning to end, but the judges reached a decision in this one... and the winner is... Bearded Pelican Golf Links |
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Post by misternic on Sept 15, 2017 9:43:59 GMT -5
The Eighty-Eight Club vs Bearded Pelican Golf Links Misternic has a way of putting out sneaky good courses that often times fly under the radar. He came back to this year's Showdown with another solid entry. I often times wonder if misternic gets caught in the trap of trying to design towards what he thinks will fit the judge's tastes rather than running with his concept judging be damned, but that's just speculation on my part. There was definite improvement in bunker sculpting and and the blending of brushes, but some of the choices around the course just didn't "fit". Some was just the size of bunkers in relation to the fairway they were on, and while there's nothing technically wrong with that it does sometimes catch the eyeballs in a funky way. There was great sculpting going on off the playing surfaces, and he took great care to make the surroundings fit the style of course he was putting forth. Once again, just a solid, solid course for the judges to mull over. and the winner is... Thanks Griff - yep absolutely worry to much about all the feedback I have gotten over the years... I overfret "can it be mowed", make bunkers bottoms flatter and smoother, and now add more eye candy... I take feedback very seriously, but yes it does start to impede "my style". This one sounds like a done deal, feeling a bit disappointed about that. Thanks all. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 9:54:15 GMT -5
The Eighty-Eight Club vs Bearded Pelican Golf Links Misternic has a way of putting out sneaky good courses that often times fly under the radar. He came back to this year's Showdown with another solid entry. I often times wonder if misternic gets caught in the trap of trying to design towards what he thinks will fit the judge's tastes rather than running with his concept judging be damned, but that's just speculation on my part. There was definite improvement in bunker sculpting and and the blending of brushes, but some of the choices around the course just didn't "fit". Some was just the size of bunkers in relation to the fairway they were on, and while there's nothing technically wrong with that it does sometimes catch the eyeballs in a funky way. There was great sculpting going on off the playing surfaces, and he took great care to make the surroundings fit the style of course he was putting forth. Once again, just a solid, solid course for the judges to mull over. and the winner is... Thanks Griff - yep absolutely worry to much about all the feedback I have gotten over the years... I overfret "can it be mowed", make bunkers bottoms flatter and smoother, and now add more eye candy... I take feedback very seriously, but yes it does start to impede "my style". This one sounds like a done deal, feeling a bit disappointed about that. Thanks all. The "can it be mowed" and flat bunkers are just straight up technical things, and should at some point become staple on ANY course you put out...not things you do just for a contest. As to looks and routing, don't try to get into the heads of the judges...you'll never be able to as we all look at things differently. A clean course is a clean course, and it's something that all designers refine over time...the way your course looks and plays needs to be YOUR concept and play it to the hilt if you want it to shine. When you start trying to tinker with things to make it fit what you think I want to see you're hurting yourself. You're a good designer with great ideas...it's all in the finishing in many cases. Pick out courses by people you think are the very best and study why they do certain things on a course. You don't have to copy them, but try to understand the "whys" and the methods. I have yet to see a course from you that isn't really solid, misternic...now it's just turning the corner and blowing our doors off. And remember, it is a contest...so things looked at under a microscope here more than they do when it's just a casual round. |
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Post by misternic on Sept 15, 2017 12:03:54 GMT -5
. I have yet to see a course from you that isn't really solid, misternic...now it's just turning the corner and blowing our doors off. And remember, it is a contest...so things looked at under a microscope here more than they do when it's just a casual round. I only design for contest for this very reason. I want the microscopic feedback...Thanks again for everyone legwork. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 10:39:00 GMT -5
Congrats to Columbia Pines Golf Club on the much deserved win over Erin Links.
TY to the judges for your feedback, already looking forward to the next contest. FYI. After painstakingly going through all the handicapped courses in the game, Erin Links has the 2nd highest handicap in the game, so while it did not deliver for this contest, it delivered almost precisely what I was looking for. Theme choice, well, the most appropriate theme, delivered a hideous looking course without the fescue. So I could of yet again just bailed on making it and deleting it, this was my compromise. FWIW, I like it, and at the end of the day, that is all that matters, everything else comes below that. Fairway slopes give this course a little challenge, pins gives this course some teeth.
I build for me, what I want now, nothing more, nothing less and TY @griff for recognizing that.
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