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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 10:10:34 GMT -5
Patience Hollow Golf Club vs Erin Links
Judge #1I like Erin Links but it is not CC appropriate in places. Patience Hollow has some nice stuff...but it's a crap shoot of missing bridges, tees not in the tee box areas, trees planted by a wandering hobo with a grudge... Erin Links looks good even in the odd theme choice. The bunkers are fun, the greens are nasty but enjoyable, length is crazy long... But it's well done. Patience hollow has tree problems. You need to release the beavers from their cages or hire the first four guys you find wearing flannel to cut those suckers down. Then there is the missing bridge. Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? My favorite is the tees that are in a straight line...but the teeing grounds are circles that kind of arc out to the right. What the salty poop nugget? Judge #2
Erin Links -- I'm a sucker for the winter theme (if this doesn't give away who the judge is...lol). Bunkers are nicely done.... Greens are iffy in spots in terms of difficulty, and length may be an issue for players clubs. Bordering on CC pro difficulty. Appreciate the realism here in keeping pins to what they had in the Open.. but if designer is taking liberty with the theme, I wish he did something with the pins to make them a little more cc friendly. Patience -- Saving errors here are going to hurt this course. Missing bridges and tees not on the teeing ground is hard to overlook. I know stuff that was fixed, but you know we have to go by what was presented here. I also think the trees here (placement wise) are an issue. Griff's Final Thoughts:I almost hate judging this one...not because the courses are bad, but because I don't think we got the full impact of this matchup. Steve did a very solid job with Erin...it's technically clean for the most part, plays smooth, but almost misses the difficulty factor for CC. What I do know about Steve is that he has his style and he's going to stick to it regardless of what others think..and that should be applauded. That doesn't mean that I agree with all of his choices, but you can't say that this isn't a very solid course. I do believe that the course would have greatly benefited from a change of theme, but that's a personal thing and not an indictment of the course. Culallen did some VERY nice things with Patience Hollow, and there are some fantastic ideas/concepts going on there. Obviously some of the trees are offputting, but it's a minor thing in the end. The hardest thing about this one is that it felt like he just ran out of time for cleanup...which he did. As one other judge stated, we know what he was going for and may really love the idea, but it doesn't mean we can't overlook its lack of finish...we can only judge what is pout in front of us. It's unfortunate that he had issues with the publishing and time as it would have been a very fun matchup to judge based on the merit of course design versus judging based on technical things. Culallen: please keep joining the contests, man. This was a setback that just got away in the very end, but you have a course with VERY solid bones that could have been a real threat in this contest. This should in no way be considered a negative experience...it's just part of the learning curve and evolution of design contests. I honestly look forward to courses you publish in the future, and sincerely hope you come back for the Invicta. That being said, we can't rightfully vote your course through over Steve's with such glaring lack of finish. It happens, but many thanks for the time and effort you put forth to get this one out...I know it wasn't easy. Erin Links advances |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 10:23:25 GMT -5
Columbia Pines Golf Club vs Aengus Rock
Columbia Pines Judge's CommentsJudge #1Hole 13 - Hate the homes. Hate them. No trees...no break. Just homes. I do not understand this choice in any way shape or form. Hole 14 - Please take comments on 13. Multiply them by 4 or 5. Take the paper on which you showed your work. Burn it. Eat the ashes. You will enjoy that more than I enjoy this hole. Hole 15 - Also...who would buy these homes? No trees, no fences. It’s like… I keep expecting to see a nuclear power plant where all these people work and this is their assigned living space and golf course provided by the company. Hole 16 - Well this tee shot beats the everloving piss out of the last few holes. Pros: Clean edges No big mistakes regarding using the tools provided A few good views Cons: Bunkers are predictable in placement, shallow in depth, crowded in placement, small in size. Greens became too large as things progressed. Too many hills and bumps in bad positions that really detracted from the course. Judge #2Columbia Pines: Has some great ideas (4th hole, 7th hole, and 15th comes to mind), but has some serious flaws (9th hole screams elevation... lighting on 12 needs sunglasses.. and those super fugly houses). I think the course is clean, I don't notice any major brush or sculpting problems... just feel like with some massaging this could be something special. Definitely fits the cc theme. Judge #3columbia pines is solid with good brush work and textures that plays well for cc. was enjoying the round and then came those houses and it just killed it for me. i think he used every house in the game and i just hated that par3 out in the middle of no where too. sorry cant remember which hole, the course just got lost for a few holes there. bunkers are ok, little more sculpting here and there but solid cc course if you can get through the funny looking houses everywhere. lol Aengus Rock Judge's Comments
Judge #1Overall Impressions: Dear Designer, I hate you. I hate you with burning seething fire. I’m going to send you evil letters written with letters I cut out of time magazine. You have some really nice ideas. You have some really nice spots. But you hide it or mangle it with funky knobs and hills. You’ve planted enough grass that you will likely be sued for the house fires of PS4 owners. You made greens that are probably borderline too difficult for this contest but that are pretty fun regardless. And yet you’ve taken your good ideas and then tucked them into a corner and seem to hope that nobody notices. I don’t get it. Alas, it’s your baby and you can do as you wish. Just don’t be surprised when I call child services on your ass. Pros: Easily catches fire Provides ample cover for predators Some really neat angles and well placed hazards Greens aren’t boring! And they do use the surrounding ground better than any other track Kept your style going throughout. Was fun to play regardless of blind shots Cons: Lack of periscopes provided in clubhouse. No native guides. I can’t see where I’m going on so many 2nd shots it’s just amazing. Some really crappy sculpting on bunkers that aren’t round. Some really crappy sculpting on some bunkers that ARE round Obscuring your best work at every turn. Judge #2Aengus: I really wanted to like this course. Love the ideas that were gone for here, but they're hidden by sculpting and 800 miles of tall grass. I think the bunker placement is great, but sculpting issues abound with bunkers that aren't round. Think the difficulty is iffy for cc.. definitely out for cc am. I wish there wasn't so much tall grass... it covers some good ideas. Judge #3Aengus... wow got grass anyone? sculpting was iffy, too many blind second shots, too much grass. oh, did i say too much grass? this was arctic fury gone mad. Griff's Final Thoughts:There's not much more I can add here. Both courses had some great things going on, both had some issues. Aengus has some contouring that blocks some of the best looking things on the course, kessler has houses. Both can be dressed up and/or fixed, but we can't judge on what might be...only what we see. Sooooo...without further ado... The winner is...
Columbia Pines Golf Club |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 10:23:38 GMT -5
The Eighty-Eight Club vs TBD
Seeing as misternic gets a bye this round, I will have comments for his course in the next matchup. Sorry, nic...patience, my brother.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 10:23:52 GMT -5
Bearded Pelican Golf Links vs Mandolin Walk Golf & Country Club Bearded Pelican Judge's CommentsJudge #1This course wins the "fits the name perfectly" award. I feel like I am playing a course that would have that exact name... not too many designers can achieve that affect. Did not like the houses behind the first tee.. starts off with a negative. Also couldn't figure out the purpose of fencing in that little mid fairway walkway on 3. 5th hole, the sand in front of the green felt too large to me, but loved the idea of the hole. After I got by those little nuances, I really go into the theming. Some things seemed to be repeated (pot bunker in the middle of the driving area on like 4 holes), some hole shapes being repeated etc.. but I found myself wanting to go back and play it again from a different tee / pin combo. Loved the water fountain / feature behind the 18th green in the clubhouse... was a great final visual for the last tee shot. Difficulty is spot on for cc am.
Judge #2Overall Impressions: Another course that I feel started off nicely...but then the rails came off a little bit. Nothing went terribly wrong but things were just off. Bunkers became overlarge and the shapes were “poofy” if that’s a good way of saying it. Lots of missed chances. Greens were somewhat unnatural in their tiering. Having a bunker behind the green is good SOMETIMES. I think a LOT of these back bunkers could have been eliminated and something more interesting done. Some mistakes that seem to be common to every course cropped up (limited tee shot on LONG holes, placing extraneous bunkers, skinny fairway entries…) Pros: Good lighting and textures for the most part Hazard spacing is good Some decent hole ideas Cons: BUnkers are overlarge and lack drama Bunkers in fairway are almost a crutch. Unnatural green tiers Hiding your work Mandolin Walk Judge's CommentsJudge #1Possibly the best off the course work in the contest. The swimming pool is neat.. but then again there is stuff to look at everywhere. If this was an off the course contest, this wins hands down. On the course, this has some things that bothered me. Don't like the idea of having a blind tee shot on 4 and then putting a tree on the edge of the dogleg... but my rage there was quickly quieted down by an awesome waterfall behind the green. 11th tee forces you to lay back.. tough on a long hole... I thought going the route you did on 17 would have been better. I also didn't like the way the elevation and the buildings took away from 18. Sam said himself this is intermediate level.. and it's definitely out on cc am I think. The Verdict
Both courses seemed solid and sculpting was spot on in my eyes. I'm finding it tough to choose between these two, and it's a shame this is a round 1 match. I think the CC pro guys will get a kick out of Mandolin, and I think the cc am guys will get a kick playing Bearded. I think the edge here is super small (microscopic!), but I think the winner is ..... Griff's Final Thoughts:Man....yet another matchup that's tough to call. While past courses have nothing to do with how this is judged, I am going to get a little philosophical here because it is relevant to the scoring in this particular matchup. Both of these guys are well known in the design circles, both have skill in the course designer, and both have established a very distinct style that they have made their very own...that works both for and against them sometimes. Sam is just always solid. He has good ideas and concepts and often brings them to fruition through his technical ability. That being said, I also believe that he has locked himself too much in to his own comfort zone. Some of the same things that have cost him in past competitions are still be repeated. It doesn't mean that what he does is bad or wrong, but when being judged if you keep seeing the same comments over and over through multiple contests...well...you see where I'm going there. Mandolin is a fantastic course that well worthy of being on tour and receiving multiple plays. There were, however, places that it fell a little flat and "routine"...especially in the context of a contest. In no way do I want Sam to think I don't like his course or disrespect him as a designer, but I do want to see him get a little outside of his comfort zone. He has the ability to be among the very elite of the design community, but I would like to see him take more chances. Very solid course, Sam...please don't take it as a negative. I've had the chance to work with Patrick some behind the scenes, so I have some inside info towards his design style and how he goes about making decisions. I personally believe that this is his cleanest course to date. While I do enjoy the layout of the Pelican, he fell into the trap of the "fairway in the middle of the fairway" trap to try and keep players honest off the tee. Like Sam, I keep hoping Patrick is going to expand his bag of tricks with more imagination towards using the contouring and angles create the difficulty rather than "place a bunker here or there". As above, I don't want Patrick to take this as me saying this isn't a good course or anything of that nature...I'm just throwing things out there that are in my mind and that aren't necessarily relative towards the judging of this matchup. Anyways....great job here, guys. Any other part of these brackets and you both could have gone far, but only one is going to move on to round 2... and the winner is...
Bearded Pelican Golf Links |
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Post by jacobkessler on Aug 24, 2017 16:59:53 GMT -5
If you want to get things set up ahead of time, there's a 100% chance my course is called Columbia Pines Golf Club. Just finishing the tedious sh*t before I publish.
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Post by jacobkessler on Sept 8, 2017 11:54:04 GMT -5
Guess the homes weren't popular lol... if you do want this used for CC, I'd happily redo holes 14-16 and republish. Let me know. Thanks for the comments
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742 
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Sept 8, 2017 11:56:24 GMT -5
HA! Honestly I would think you could leave them...just put some TREES around them so they are visible...but not the only thing you see.
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Post by warhawk137 on Sept 8, 2017 12:50:15 GMT -5
Guess the homes weren't popular lol... if you do want this used for CC, I'd happily redo holes 14-16 and republish. Let me know. Thanks for the comments Look on the bright side, at least you don't have to delete 10 MB of grass. |
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Sept 8, 2017 12:51:27 GMT -5
If the grass wasn't in the way it would be fine. It just blocks too many shots based on the sculpting. It's not bad...just needs to be cleaned up.  |
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Post by warhawk137 on Sept 8, 2017 12:57:03 GMT -5
If the grass wasn't in the way it would be fine. It just blocks too many shots based on the sculpting. It's not bad...just needs to be cleaned up. That's what I'm working on right now, plus lowering some fairways and redoing some tee boxes and fixing some bunkers. There's still plenty of bushes and grass, the grass just isn't, y'know, everywhere. |
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Sept 8, 2017 12:59:29 GMT -5
I think you mean erry'whur
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Post by mrooola on Sept 8, 2017 14:14:42 GMT -5
If the grass wasn't in the way it would be fine. It just blocks too many shots based on the sculpting. It's not bad...just needs to be cleaned up. That's what I'm working on right now, plus lowering some fairways and redoing some tee boxes and fixing some bunkers. There's still plenty of bushes and grass, the grass just isn't, y'know, everywhere. My advice. Take the feedback and use it in future designs. Don't spend time fixing what's been done. You will learn far more going forward. Not looking back. I say this without actually reading the comments of your course or playing it yet. I say this solely based on these two posts. Good luck with your next project! |
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Post by warhawk137 on Sept 8, 2017 14:16:51 GMT -5
That's what I'm working on right now, plus lowering some fairways and redoing some tee boxes and fixing some bunkers. There's still plenty of bushes and grass, the grass just isn't, y'know, everywhere. My advice. Take the feedback and use it in future designs. Don't spend time fixing what's been done. You will learn far more going forward. Not looking back. I say this without actually reading the comments of your course or playing it yet. I say this solely based on these two posts. Good luck with your next project! It's not taking too long really. I'm not totally renovating the thing, just want to get it into a state where I feel comfortable submitting it to the site. Besides, I feel like it's kind of useful to be getting a second look at the same course in the designer after getting feedback and being able to see and work on things I didn't think of before. |
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Post by catcherman22 on Sept 8, 2017 14:45:02 GMT -5
That's what I'm working on right now, plus lowering some fairways and redoing some tee boxes and fixing some bunkers. There's still plenty of bushes and grass, the grass just isn't, y'know, everywhere. My advice. Take the feedback and use it in future designs. Don't spend time fixing what's been done. You will learn far more going forward. Not looking back. I say this without actually reading the comments of your course or playing it yet. I say this solely based on these two posts. Good luck with your next project! He's got a nice course if he fixes a few things... definitely could be a tour course if massaged a little bit! |
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Post by misternic on Sept 8, 2017 16:01:16 GMT -5
The Eighty-Eight Club vs TBD
Seeing as misternic gets a bye this round, I will have comments for his course in the next matchup. Sorry, nic...patience, my brother. Just another sign of how much you hate me. I know you don't, but you for some reason think I do. Your feedback is constructive. Constructive is not negative, and I think you liked my course.
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