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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 24, 2017 15:04:32 GMT -5
So we've had plenty of threads full of b%&ing about the clubsets, but for some reason we don't have one of those for the designer...
Well I'm gonna change that
First of all, the menu system is ruined. There are WAY too many menus to move through and some things are in simply ridiculous places. Why the f*ck are the clear terrain tools under sculpt land? What?
Oh, and let me talk about splines. While it may be true that they save a ton of time, held the time is spent either fixing those little indents the thing creates or moving the handles because occasionally the "smooth path" tool doesn't work. Yeah, I'm serious. You saw my "what is up with splines" thread, and if you didn't, look at it. How does that happen AFTER I hit smooth path?
Also, so many things that should've been added that weren't. HB had time to put in the buffalo skull, kangaroos, and 4 F*CKING PAGES OF SKYSCRAPERS, but we still can't rotate trees? Area select works worse than TGC1? WHAT?
Not to mention how slow it runs. While I may have a rather slow PC, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WAIT 30 SECONDS FOR IT TO COMPLETE ONE ACTION.
It's total horsesh*t. I've been trying to pretend like I love this game to make up for those who hate it, but I CAN'T ANYMORE.
/rant
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Post by Han on Jul 24, 2017 15:56:31 GMT -5
First of all, the menu system is ruined. There are WAY too many menus to move through and some things are in simply ridiculous places. Why the f*ck are the clear terrain tools under sculpt land? What? I disagree. I did think the same thing at first but now I have gotten used to it I do actually think it is an improvement overall. I do however agree with you that some things are in silly places, but HB have already said they are looking at moving some things around from the feedback they have received. Oh, and let me talk about splines. While it may be true that they save a ton of time, held the time is spent either fixing those little indents the thing creates or moving the handles because occasionally the "smooth path" tool doesn't work. Yeah, I'm serious. You saw my "what is up with splines" thread, and if you didn't, look at it. How does that happen AFTER I hit smooth path? Splines can be a bit fiddly but the more you use them the easier they become. Unfortunately if you think that pressing the smooth path button is going to get rid of all the little kinks then you are going to be disappointed......think of the cart paths from TGC1. I am currently using a mixture of splines and brushes (mainly for some touching up) and am finding it pretty good. The one thing I won't be using splines for after some varying results is greens. I, like a lot of other people, find that greens are still easier done with brushes. Also, so many things that should've been added that weren't. HB had time to put in the buffalo skull, kangaroos, and 4 F*CKING PAGES OF SKYSCRAPERS, but we still can't rotate trees? Area select works worse than TGC1? WHAT? I agree that there could have been some better additions than all the wildlife / vehicles / buildings etc but lets face it, more stuff = good no matter which way you look at it and I'm pretty sure they will add more as they go along.....just compare what TGC1 had in the beginning and what it ended up with. If they add the same amount as that then we will have more stuff than we will know what to do with. The part about rotating trees has been discussed by HB_Paul on numerous occasions, I suggest you head over to the HB forums and look up his posts. Not to mention how slow it runs. While I may have a rather slow PC, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WAIT 30 SECONDS FOR IT TO COMPLETE ONE ACTION. I have highlighted the part of your statement which is most relevant. While it may be VERY SLIGHTLY slower at SOME THINGS, it definitely does not take 30 seconds to do anything for me and apart from my graphics card and SSD I'm not running an overly powerfull PC. I suggest you take a look at the suggested minimum specs on the TGC2 Steam page and see how your system compares.
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Post by warhawk137 on Jul 24, 2017 17:25:39 GMT -5
The selection tools suck and the splines need to be refined, but I like the menu system because once you get used to it it's really, really, really fast to just use the numbers from memory.
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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 24, 2017 17:27:13 GMT -5
First of all, the menu system is ruined. There are WAY too many menus to move through and some things are in simply ridiculous places. Why the f*ck are the clear terrain tools under sculpt land? What? I disagree. I did think the same thing at first but now I have gotten used to it I do actually think it is an improvement overall. I do however agree with you that some things are in silly places, but HB have already said they are looking at moving some things around from the feedback they have received. Oh, and let me talk about splines. While it may be true that they save a ton of time, held the time is spent either fixing those little indents the thing creates or moving the handles because occasionally the "smooth path" tool doesn't work. Yeah, I'm serious. You saw my "what is up with splines" thread, and if you didn't, look at it. How does that happen AFTER I hit smooth path? Splines can be a bit fiddly but the more you use them the easier they become. Unfortunately if you think that pressing the smooth path button is going to get rid of all the little kinks then you are going to be disappointed......think of the cart paths from TGC1. I am currently using a mixture of splines and brushes (mainly for some touching up) and am finding it pretty good. The one thing I won't be using splines for after some varying results is greens. I, like a lot of other people, find that greens are still easier done with brushes. Also, so many things that should've been added that weren't. HB had time to put in the buffalo skull, kangaroos, and 4 F*CKING PAGES OF SKYSCRAPERS, but we still can't rotate trees? Area select works worse than TGC1? WHAT? I agree that there could have been some better additions than all the wildlife / vehicles / buildings etc but lets face it, more stuff = good no matter which way you look at it and I'm pretty sure they will add more as they go along.....just compare what TGC1 had in the beginning and what it ended up with. If they add the same amount as that then we will have more stuff than we will know what to do with. The part about rotating trees has been discussed by HB_Paul on numerous occasions, I suggest you head over to the HB forums and look up his posts. Not to mention how slow it runs. While I may have a rather slow PC, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WAIT 30 SECONDS FOR IT TO COMPLETE ONE ACTION. I have highlighted the part of your statement which is most relevant. While it may be VERY SLIGHTLY slower at SOME THINGS, it definitely does not take 30 seconds to do anything for me and apart from my graphics card and SSD I'm not running an overly powerfull PC. I suggest you take a look at the suggested minimum specs on the TGC2 Steam page and see how your system compares. For the splines, I still find them a useful feature, but with what you said on the cart paths of TGC1, HB should've known that issue existed and tried to fix it for the new game. I'm by no means a programming expert, but I know that they can probably fix that. Yeah I am glad that they added more objects. Like you said, the more the better. I just think they should prioritize a bit more and think about stuff we've been asking for since day one of TGC1 instead of some of the ransoms stuff we got. As for the waiting I have to do, maybe it's fine for you, but I can guarantee that I've spent plenty of time waiting. My PC has all of the minimum suggestions for stuff, and in some places is even more powerful than what it suggests, but for some reason it still takes forever to do some stuff.
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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 24, 2017 17:38:23 GMT -5
The selection tools suck and the splines need to be refined, but I like the menu system because once you get used to it it's really, really, really fast to just use the numbers from memory. While this may be true, it was the same as TGC1. I had remembered (and still remember) H is one of the most important buttons (edit holes) along with all the menus with C (C23 click C24 click click click click) (that was my method for fairway). I do like that TGC2 does it the same way, with the labeled menus, but they just go way too extensive for me. That's a kind of thing that's totally opinion though.
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Post by scampi00 on Jul 24, 2017 17:41:00 GMT -5
I'm with Jacob, but not to the same extent. My biggest gripe is that if I selected a tree in TGC1, all I had to do was scroll right to select different tree. Now I have to back out a step, choose, select, and apply. Could have been implemented easier. I also get lost looking for various objects. That being said the rest of the menu just takes getting used to.
I do find it slower though. More and more I design it does seem slower.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 24, 2017 18:05:00 GMT -5
I'm by no means a programming expert, but I know that they can probably fix that. No, you don't know that they can fix it. This is one of my biggest pet-peeves - in the same breath, you are saying you don't know anything about programming, and still expect developers to fix a specific minor issue, despite knowing nothing about how it's coded already and what might have to happen to fix it. That doesn't even begin to broach the subject of time, money, and available personnel to actually do the work. Probably it's something they want to fix, but it can be worked around, and it might involve a lot of time and money, so it gets pushed down the priority list. Also, the addition of assets and models to the designer is probably low-hanging fruit they were able to pick off while doing their analysis of other, larger fixes and enhancements that were needed. It doesn't mean that new assets were prioritized over larger fixes. That's not how development works. Anyway, the designer is overall, a big leap forward from TGC1, and will only continue to get better. It isn't perfect, but it is better.
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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 24, 2017 18:14:59 GMT -5
I'm by no means a programming expert, but I know that they can probably fix that. No, you don't know that they can fix it. This is one of my biggest pet-peeves - in the same breath, you are saying you don't know anything about programming, and still expect developers to fix a specific minor issue, despite knowing nothing about how it's coded already and what might have to happen to fix it. That doesn't even begin to broach the subject of time, money, and available personnel to actually do the work. Probably it's something they want to fix, but it can be worked around, and it might involve a lot of time and money, so it gets pushed down the priority list. Also, the addition of assets and models to the designer is probably low-hanging fruit they were able to pick off while doing their analysis of other, larger fixes and enhancements that were needed. It doesn't mean that new assets were prioritized over larger fixes. That's not how development works. Anyway, the designer is overall, a big leap forward from TGC1, and will only continue to get better. It isn't perfect, but it is better. Setting money, time, and personnel aside, yes, they can fix it, I know for a fact. I say I'm not a programming expert but that doesn't mean I know nothing. You know that wavy line in the right rough issue? They can fix it. Many other games have had issues with where two surfaces meet, they cause a wavy line in the original. And those many other games have fixed it. And, based on my best judgement, the spline issues is caused my something similar to that. So I am educated in what I'm saying. And I don't "know nothing" about this. I'm just not an expert. As for your comments on extra objects, yes I know that, but I think they chose those to rush the game to get it out on the release date. How many issues are there in this game? A TON. If they pushed it back to just December then so much could be done. And why is it so hard to rotate trees? We can rotate grass. We can rotate rocks. We can rotate buildings. But not trees. It's so simple. Anyway, IMO, the designer is worse than TGC1. If you get rid of splines then I think there is NOTHING that TGC2 improved upon. Longer load times. More complicated menu. Sculpting has completely changed (yeah I forgot to mention that in the OP). As I titled the thread, the designer, plain and simple, sucks.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
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Post by reebdoog on Jul 24, 2017 18:58:51 GMT -5
Rotate trees isn't possible because of LOD issues. When the trees aren't high detail they are billboard and the billboards are created for one angle. That's my understanding. As for splines I use more than I need, smooth path, then go back and delete excess waypoints where kinks are created
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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 24, 2017 19:01:49 GMT -5
Rotate trees isn't possible because of LOD issues. When the trees aren't high detail they are billboard and the billboards are created for one angle. That's my understanding. Interesting, didn't know that. Unsure why HB made them billboards though when the rotate-able items aren't.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Jul 24, 2017 19:09:32 GMT -5
Because those items disappear at that distance
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 24, 2017 19:13:27 GMT -5
Rotate trees isn't possible because of LOD issues. When the trees aren't high detail they are billboard and the billboards are created for one angle. That's my understanding. Interesting, didn't know that. Unsure why HB made them billboards though when the rotate-able items aren't. Because drawing tons of high-detailed trees, and checking their collision properties every frame slows down game performance. The world in a golf game is many times larger than shooter games, so to save graphics memory usage, they billboard trees. The other rotatable items are not drawn if they are far away which limits the number of them that can be on-screen at one time.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 24, 2017 19:25:13 GMT -5
If you get rid of splines then I think there is NOTHING that TGC2 improved upon. Longer load times. More complicated menu. Sculpting has completely changed (yeah I forgot to mention that in the OP). I haven't noticed really any difference in the way sculpting works. What I really like is that I can stretch the sculpting brushes and create an even more varied terrain. Snap is a neat function that saves time in many cases - although it could be better - When building walls, fences and bridges. I've already been able to use the height adjustment and the snap feature to build some creative stuff that just didn't work in TGC1. I don't find the menu to be all that cumbersome, and I'm on PS4 where there are no keyboard hotkeys. There are a few things that can be improved, but overall, it's not that bad. I'm not sure that placing "Clear Terrain" is a step backwards by being in the Sculpt menu, considering "Remove Generated Objects/Trees" was in the CREATE menu in TGC1. It would be nice if L1/R1 cycled through objects after selecting them. In TGC1, using the L1 button was a nice feature, even though it does not exist for KB/M designers. If you don't like something, go to the HB forums and ask HB_LauraC if it's something that can be done. She's really responsive, and she'll explain why something was done/not done. Sometimes, there's a technical reason. Sometimes, there's a money/time reason. Sometimes, it's a contradictory feedback reason.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Jul 24, 2017 20:40:59 GMT -5
Advanced edit... water...snap...houses...bunker textures and depth... I like it
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Post by warhawk137 on Jul 24, 2017 20:48:14 GMT -5
Advanced edit... water...snap...houses...bunker textures and depth... I like it I mean, the houses look like the houses they used in nuclear testing back in the 40s, but sure.
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