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Post by beamstas on Jul 19, 2017 17:49:01 GMT -5
What do you guys like to see on a 300yd par 4? How far from the green should a 'safe' landing area be? Should the green be brutal? Heavy bunkering? What are your favourite drivable par 4s?
One of my favourites is a hole by pablo (cant remember the course) which is drivable. The safe landing area is elevated but you can fly over it and onto the green with a driver. The green is tiered making you decide whether you can drive and 2 putt or take a safe drive and try stick a close approach.
Want to start a discussion to find out what people like, short par 4s are my all time favourite holes..
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Post by scampi00 on Jul 19, 2017 19:30:34 GMT -5
For me, the most important element is to ensure that a well placed drive is rewarded, not punished. If the drive reaches the safe area only to roll off the green on the other side than there's no real reward for reaching in 1. So if the safe area is green, make sure the drive can hold it.
That being said, I like a narrow green long ways perpendicular with the golfer so that the ball can land on green and still have the potential to leave a long putt.
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Post by bassman70 on Jul 20, 2017 5:24:48 GMT -5
Thank you for saying this Scampi...to me and maybe I'm wrong with thinking this, but if you're making a par 4 that can be reached in one, you should make it so that the player has a chance to make eagle. Same thing should go for short par 5's, otherwise what is the purpose has always been my thought.
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Post by d3souz4 on Jul 20, 2017 10:04:55 GMT -5
I'm with Pete Dye on this one. If a green was meant to be hit in one it should be a par 3. If it's reachable from the tee and a par 4 it should be pretty penal. A very small landing area with trouble all around, maybe a mound pr something that you can play off of or a tailwind. Otherwise it can't be reached. However my favorite designer (Donald Ross) had a philosophy that you shouldn't punish the aggressive player. So taking on a long carry and going too far wouldn't be penal. Ideally I'd look at a landing area 285ish off the tee that maybe also needs to be shaped so you come in at the right angle to hit a slope and slow the ball. Otherwise you'll run off the back. Short of the landing area and you're in a deep bunker, water, or rolling down a hill 30 yards away. For the hill to be viable a closer bailout area would be needed.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 20, 2017 10:56:16 GMT -5
For a drivable par 4, the ideal tee shot should not be directly towards the pin. A great shot should yield a reasonable chance at an eagle putt (not necessarily a 10-footer, either). An average shot should be somewhat penal, in that par should be an OK score, but birdie is attainable. A bad shot should be penalized.
An example of this is the 15th at my Crescentic Bay (which, sadly, will likely never be ported to TGC2). The hole is a sharp dogleg-right with a generous fairway. Conservative players can take a 5W down the fairway and be left with a full wedge. Another option is 3w with a more aggressive line, leaving a short pitch. The third option is to pull out the big stick and try to drive the green.
The green is protected from the tee by two bunkers. Without a tailwind, it is not possible to carry them, but even with a tailwind, that is not the ideal play. The best approach carries the left edge and uses the green sloping as a backstop. Vet it just right and be left with a short eagle putt.
The pin is placed in the middle tier of the 3-tiered green. Miss to the left, and the ball will rest atop the upper tier. That is the worst miss, as any putt risks running past the cup and down to the bottom tier. Missing to the right results in the ball either coming to rest on the lower tier or off the green completely, 17 yards from the cup.
Since recovery in TGC1 is very easy, the hole played almost as a par 3, but in TGC2, a hole like this would be both rewarding and penal for aggressive players.
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