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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 20:31:26 GMT -5
On my most recent course in TGC1 I used 25-30yd as a standard for fairway width and roughly 35yd large greens. Is this still acceptable in TGC2 or should everything be slightly larger to accommodate difficulty?
What other design concepts should we be keeping in mind with this new game so that we don't make unreasonable courses?
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Post by jivesinator on Jul 7, 2017 23:08:42 GMT -5
Here are my thoughts for what they're worth: On fairways: They need to be wide enough for the course. Yeah, sounds vague, but let me get into it. At least with my school of thought, the big determiner for fairway width at least as a course's overall minimum is firmness. Of course, the course length, difficulty, 'shot priority' (meaning which shot on the hole is most important between driving, approach, and putting), and individual factors of the hole can determine it, but the firmer courses cause the ball to run through fairways easier. So, it really depends on firmness, but in the early designs in TGC2 it's best to be wide on fairways. I'd personally set a minimum at 25 yards for driver on med firmness, with 20 on full soft and 30 on full firm.
On greens: The size shouldn't change much; the larger change will undoubtedly be on the slope/break. Putting is different and much harder, so holes with drastic break will be punitive on a ridiculous level. Also, pins will be much more accessible, so multipinning will have more of an option and won't be constrained by green edges as much.
With the multiple tee boxes, hole designs will need to be much more intelligent from more angles in order to accommodate the different tee positions. Additionally, tees will need to have realistic distances; by that, I mean that each tee should be at least 300 yards shorter than the ones further; because of this, the forward tees would be best if placed about 1200-1500 yards shorter on the average course with 4 tee options. Not only does this look more realistic, but it also makes each hole playable for the majority of the TGC2 gamers, even the noobs who hook and/or slice every other shot.
Lastly, and this isn't course design per se, more of working with the designer itself, is to learn its limits. See first what you can do and then try to build on that with tougher ideas. The designer is a program and programs are really dumb at understanding golf course design, they just sense the edits you make. None of the best courses in either game have been autogenerated.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 7, 2017 23:17:17 GMT -5
It's going to depend upon what level of player you intend to satisfy. Decide on an overall concept and then work inside that framework.
If you want to challenge the Pro players, then you may want to consider wider fairways where position in the fairway is important, a la Erin Hills. Maybe the fairway is 50 yards wide, but the green is on a diagonal so that the right side of the fairway has a significantly better angle to the pin. Or maybe there is a 275-yard carry over water and if you can't make it you have to play out to the side and leave yourself 160 yards to the pin, while carrying the water means hitting a PW or GW to the pin.
If you want to cater to beginner players, maybe you use narrow fairways - 25 yard wide - shorter overall length, and accessible pins. This would emphasize the accuracy that Standard clubs offer while de-emphasizing distance and spin. A 375 yard hole is Driver + full PW for standard clubs and a Driver and SW pitch for Tour clubs.
Maybe a hole plays as a driveable par 4 from the forward tees at 265 yards, but is 400 yards from the tips with a river that cuts across the fairway at 280. That would force Tour players playing from the tips into a decision whether to try to clear the water or lay up, while offering beginners a nice chance at a birdie.
Or you could build a mini Augusta where the greens are the defense for the entire course and angles and position are everything.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 0:30:31 GMT -5
Excellent advice so far, thank you.
John - just to set your mind at ease, I don't autogen anything in my holes. Every shape and curve is manually chosen. I 100% agree with you. 👍🏻
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