Group C Judging Results & Scoreboard

[Deleted]

Designer                                                                                           Points

drivert                                                                                                7

pablo                                                                                                 7

B.Smooth13                                                                                      3

georgeolson                                                                                     0


drivert wins sudden death against pablo. drivert advances as winner of Group C; pablo advances as second place. Good luck in the knockout rounds, gents.

[Deleted]

Woodbridge Golf Club vs Threshold Lakes Golf Resort

Judge 1:
Here's my notes for 1st matchup. 
(+ = good characteristics, - = could be improved)

Woodbridge Golf Club:
+Very clean design in terms of sculpting, smoothing, contouring. Many rounder shapes used which is easier on my eye
+Holes presented well from tees and landing areas.
+Natural planting, even with limited Harvest palate
+Smooth greens in terms of consistent slopes and rolls
+Lighting on holes 9 and 10 great.
+No holes really out of place, fits as a full course
+Simple for everyone to play

-Too simple, shot -14 without even doing strict calculations or shot planning. Fairways wide, greens gentle slopes w/o much danger
-Safe design. Didn't add any real 'wow' elements. Even the island green holes didn't present any real danger.
-Some flattish bunkers (like 1st hole). A tad more contouring could make them pop
-Rough ribbon round fairways wasn't uniform thickness. Again 1st hole good example...gets thin/thick throughout
-Not enough elevation changes to make it super interesting.
-Didn't like the look off 12th tee
-Didn't like the tree on 13th blocking view of pin even through in middle of fairway
-Feels like a great fit for TST play, but not with all aids on...too simple.


Threshold Lakes Golf Resort

+Most bunkers and slopes well contoured, especially near the end.
+Planting was good in most parts
+Good use of elevation changes
+Interesting hole designs...some worked really well. Felt unique
+Holes well presented from tees
+Greens had some good design features...had to plan shots out.
+Had to plan and think quite a bit here, more fun for serious players
+Greens were all differently designed. Looks like good thought to approaches and pins.

-Didn't really like the 18th tee and drive. Behind the bunker from 17th green? If you can't reach left FW seems too big a penalty
-Was there a clubhouse? If there was, not by the first tee.
-Quite a few 'hidden' bunkers. Can only see if you use overhead cam or follow cam
-Not fully smoothed and contoured. Areas that needed polish were found routinely
-Tee to tee and FW walking paths not flat/smoothed. Some very unnatural. Some on 45+degree slopes
-Some repeated/uniform planting that stood out.
-Some bushes and trees too close to greens and FW. Some planting inside light rough
-Several pointy hills found...not sure if intentional, but looked odd
-5th hole retaining wall needs a lot of work. Not flat w/ land, so ugly sunken brown area between it and the rough/FW. Really turned me off to that hole
-6th hole had quite a few sculpting issues too
-10th green runs off the back too much for me
-Lots of red lines @ edges of green

WINNER FOR ME IS...Woodbridge. I wished it was a little more difficult and challenged the player more but felt like a more complete course and effort. Threshold may have a tad more replayability, but too many designer flaws which pulled my attention away from the gameplay a few too many times.

Judge 2:
Now my far less extensive set of notes as my judging partner covered most of it.

Woodbridge Golf Club:
A well polished course that is enjoyable to play. There were very few risk/reward shots, I would have liked to see the player have to make more decisions on how to play a shot.
The greens looked good but were a bit on the easy side.


Threshold Lakes Golf Resort:
A not so polished course that was fun to play.  Good use of elevation to add difficulty. Bad use of planting in several areas. For the first 9 holes or so the greens were relatively simple as if the designer meant to go back and sculpt them and forgot.


This was a very tough decision for me. In the end I went with function over form.

And the winner is...Drum roll please......... Threshold Lakes

[Deleted]

Woodbridge Golf Club vs Championship Course at Palmwood Islands

Judge 1:
Woodbridge Golf Club vs. Championship Course at Palmwood

Woodbridge provided a nice, straightforward round of golf.  Not really a round that does anything horribly wrong, but also not one that is going to stand out in your mind as a course you must play again.  I found it had a nice variety of shots and hole distances, so you weren't using the same club on approach over-and-over again which ends up being the case on some courses.  The greens were by no means difficult but they provided enough of a challenge to not be gimmee's.

Design wise the course seemed to flow well and all the holes felt like they had a consistent theme.  The first cut of rough inconsistencies were jarring to look at on the fly-bys.  Otherwise there wasn't much that stood out for me design wise as it really was a solid, but safe design.

Palmwood was another solid round of golf that playwise didn't do anything memorable but it still worked as a course.  It made good use of the tropical theme incorporating water and sand into the course rather well.  Like Woodbridge I found it to be rather straightforward tee-to-green.  A bit less variety in distances used and I regularly had approach shots that were right on club distances making it seem even more straightforward to play.  Greens were more challenging than Woodbridge but by no means frustrating or unfair.  They certainly helped bring my score down.

For the most part it was a fairly clean design and as previously stated it incorporated the theme well.  The bunkers were obvious stock shapes and at least a couple greens looked like they probably were as well.  There was a missing piece in the retaining wall near the third green.  The ranger in me noticed yellow in the box on hole #9(I would have deemed it acceptable though).  Fencing in some places seemed totally randon and unnecessary.  There's a ravine in the landing area at the end of the fairway on #14.  I clubbed down to avoid it but still ended up rolling in.  Took me three shots to get the ball out of there, so it should probably be considered O/B.  The 18th tee started at the clubhouse and the hole moved away from it.  If this was a real course the golfer would be required to walk back the entire length of the hole to finish their round.

Overall, I felt the enjoyability of each round was fairly similar.  Neither one really stood out from the other.  Neither one was frustrating and just kind of let you sit back and relax through a round.  Neither one had any real wow factor either.  Palmwood was a bit sloppier looking as it did have more noticeable design errors.  Nothing major or game breaking, it just wasn't as clean.

Generic scoring breakdown:
Woodbridge-7.8/10
Palmwood-7.4/10

Winner:WOODBRIDGE


Judge 2:
WOODBRIDGE GOLF CLUB v CHAMPIONSHIP COURSE at PALMWOOD ISLANDS

Woodbridge:

Nice look off the first tee, not a fan of the Autumn theme but it looks great here with even the Links Theme Heavy Rough on display too, unique look

Overall I felt it was a nice layout that played well

It looked natural and was well planted with good use of lighting

Wasn't a fan of the bunkering, plain looking and some lacked depth, in particular fairway bunkers

Gave it a 8.5/10

Palmwood Islands:

1st tee fairway hidden from view and was a recurrence throughout the round were the blind shots, which is only due to a lack of sculpting and smoothing in between tees and fairways

Use of retaining walls and fences were pretty jagged

Green shapes were odd and unnatural for the most part

Planting was okay and worked for setting, use of grasses was off, mostly planted in places out of view, with the hit they take to the frame rates it's best to use them sparingly and a focus of them being in view as much as possible otherwise why at all, like the banks of the teeing ground on hole 6

Hole layouts were good but the sculpting prowess was really lacking the smoothness around the areas in play and extremities, in particular around brush edges and on a fairways and greens in general

Overall it's a fair effort from what I might assume a newer designer, I'd suggest they keep at it if they enjoy the GNCD and pickup as many tips from the guys like Canuck and Taste with the tutorial videos

Gave it a 6.5/10

WINNER IS WOODBRIDGE GOLF CLUB!!!

[Deleted]

Threshold Lakes Golf Resort vs Championship Course at Palmwood Islands

Judge 1:
Palmwood Islands v Threshold Lakes

like the summer contest, I will be coming at this from a non designer point of view. First up Palmwood. Standing on the first tee and first thing seen is a lot of trees, the fairway is barely visible with trees dominating the view. This continues through out the course and can be a little monotonous at times. The greens are soft and very receptive which allows the player to attack the pin on each hole and the variety of shapes and sizes do bring interesting approach shots and the possibility of changing a hole completely with multi pinning. The fifth hole, has two fairways but both are not visible from the tee, the default starting fairway is a long distance from the tee and not reachable in high winds, not being able to see the other fairway from the tee might cause confusion. Throughout the course, there are a lot of spilt fairways, and most holes at some point there will be a shot carrying over water or a large patch of rough, at times it makes a hole interesting but it is over done a bit and can make some holes seem similar. The designer has tried to be creative with the course and that has to be admired but it has not always been implemented well. Over all, it's a steady course that's just a little bit to rough around the edges to make it stand out in any way. There are good ideas here, some nice holes that just need a bit more work to have turned it into a really good course.

Second up is Threshold, and first impression standing on the tee is the course feels like natural, a course built in the middle of a forest. The first hole is easy, no issues landing in the fairway and a gently sloping green, should bring birdie for most that play and that is something that continues over the next few holes, the greens are relatively simple and it's not difficult to hit close for a easy putt. The average golfer should be able to fly through the front nine with out having to think to much. It's not until the eight hole before and slope on the green really comes into play and even then it's nothing extreme. This of course could change with different pin sets but the version we are playing for the contest has a more relaxed feel than a tournament golf course. One stand out feature noticeable as the course goes on are the elevation changes, for the most part subtle with out going for any extreme mountain type drops, this only adds to the natural feel of the course. There is a nice variety of holes on the course, and no two holes feel the same with out talking away the relaxing feel of the course, that's until sixteen appears when suddenly the difficulty goes up a notch with a tee shot with a narrow landing area. It's a good golf hole that feels out of place with rest of the course. The final two holes are also a little bit more difficult than the rest of the course, while they do fit in with the feel of the course, it's a short sharp shock after a relaxing round. Over all, a fun course to play and has potential to be a very good tour course if the greens were a little bit more varied, a bit to easy at the moment but not every course needs to be hard.

Threshold  looks better and just more fun to play. Palmwood just that bit to rough and unpolished. 

Judge 2:

Championship Course at Palmwood Islands vs. Threshold Lakes Golf Resort

Championship Course at Palmwood Islands

Pros -

Very inviting first tee.. after you hit your first shot you see that he spent a ton of time on his clubhouse area.. It looks real nice.. But when you get to the last 5 or 6 holes you wish he would have spent that time on the course.. It seemed like the finishing holes were rushed.. They seemed rougher than the rest of the course...
Some of the greens were nicely done.. On the small side but nicely done

Cons -

Post for fencing all around the course.. But no fence He did have fencing in some strange places.. Not really sure what that was all about..
Some of the bunkers were good.. Some were not.. I think he did a great job on the bigger bunkers.. It was the smaller bunkers that looked out of shape..
The course was full of palm trees and most were the same palm at the same size.. Would have looked much better with some simple resizing..
There was some crinkling around a few of the greens..
#9 green had a huge mound in the middle of it.. Strange slope..
The fairway on 10 was rough.. If you miss it you must chip back on it as the second shot is over water until you reach the green.. I missed it
Once again, the finishing holes seemed rushed.. I got the feeling he spent less time on each hole the further along he went..

Threshold Lakes Golf Resort

Pros -

Nice bunkers and unique shapes..
Did a nice job on the fairway to rough edging..
Good looking course..
Very playable..

Cons -

Needed to raise the terrain around some of the retaining walls.. Gaps between..
Some of the greens were rugged.. Seemed bumpy in bad spots to me.. 

Winner - Threshold Lakes Golf Resort

[drivert]

Looks like difficulty might be a factor that wasn't in the criteria
Its interesting that the first cut of rough width has come up a few times. I quit doing the multi click uniformity along time ago because I prefer the varying widths and shapes it seems more natural to me but maybe others don't like that. Its very interesting to see what sticks out to others as they play the course. It is really fun to me when people point to things they don't like that I do and put in on purpose.

[Moe Slorkman]

Jan 8, 2017 19:20:39 GMT -5 drivert said:

Looks like difficulty might be a factor that wasn't in the criteria
Its interesting that the first cut of rough width has come up a few times. I quit doing the multi click uniformity along time ago because I prefer the varying widths and shapes it seems more natural to me but maybe others don't like that. Its very interesting to see what sticks out to others as they play the course. It is really fun to me when people point to things they don't like that I do and put in on purpose.

Personally your course as mentioned on the podcast was my top pick of the ones I've played . It means jack but just saying. And thought your rough although not uniform looked natural to me.

[drivert]

Jan 8, 2017 19:37:19 GMT -5 Moe Slorkman said:

Jan 8, 2017 19:20:39 GMT -5 drivert said:

Looks like difficulty might be a factor that wasn't in the criteria
Its interesting that the first cut of rough width has come up a few times. I quit doing the multi click uniformity along time ago because I prefer the varying widths and shapes it seems more natural to me but maybe others don't like that. Its very interesting to see what sticks out to others as they play the course. It is really fun to me when people point to things they don't like that I do and put in on purpose.

Personally your course as mentioned on the podcast was my top pick of the ones I've played . It means jack but just saying. And thought your rough although not uniform looked natural to me.

Thanks Moe I just really like all this feedback you see and how different people look at and think about things completely different.

[mayday_golf83]

So. Assuming Woodbridge picks up the final 2 points against Palmwood, who wins the group? Both Todd & Pablo would be on 7 points w/ a draw head-to-head. (Not that us Group D folk would be interested for seeding purposes or anything 😉).

[pablo]

Jan 8, 2017 19:39:09 GMT -5 drivert said:

Jan 8, 2017 19:37:19 GMT -5 Moe Slorkman said:

Personally your course as mentioned on the podcast was my top pick of the ones I've played . It means jack but just saying. And thought your rough although not uniform looked natural to me.

Thanks Moe I just really like all this feedback you see and how different people look at and think about things completely different.

That's what I prefer of this contest. The amount of feedback. Sometimes you do something different to what has usually been done on purpose (your first cut or my retaining wall) and you get enough info about it to know if people like it or not.

Anyway Todd I knew this one would be a tough group to judge, and we could potentially end up tied, so great effort by both of us

[Moe Slorkman]

Moe Slorkmans Picks (Will be shocked if correct/Picks predate results didn't have time over weekend)

1. drivert
2. pablo

[mrooola]

If judge 2 in the DriverT vs B.Smooth match votes Woodbridge... How does the tiebreaker between pablo and todd work?

[Moe Slorkman]

Jan 9, 2017 6:21:52 GMT -5 mrooola said:

If judge 2 in the DriverT vs B.Smooth match votes Woodbridge... How does the tiebreaker between pablo and todd work?

I Think @griff splits it . 

[B.Smooth13]

Well, even though it was pretty obvious to me what was coming, still a bit disappointing to get swept across the board. You know it's a rough go when one of the "pro's" of your course is "seemed like the finishing holes were rushed" . There's no doubt the other courses are superior, guess I'd just thought that I had at least a few interesting ideas/holes going for me that people would enjoy or find cool. Given the immense amount of time I invested into the course, it is a little disheartening to not get that feeling, but I understand it's part of the process and that I have a long way to go in designing a high quality course. That said, I do greatly appreciate the judges time in playing through all of these and providing their honest feedback.

Another congrats to Pablo and Todd on their fantastic work, which clearly outclassed me in the competition, and deservedly so. I have thoroughly enjoyed being a part of this group of designers (using that term loosely for me), hopefully I can figure some things out and work towards creating something that is more polished and fun to play. Thanks Griff for all you've done setting this up and allowing me to participate, and best of luck to my fellow competitors in the upcoming rounds.

Cheers boys.

[tastegw]

Jan 9, 2017 8:32:22 GMT -5 B.Smooth13 said:

Well, even though it was pretty obvious to me what was coming, still a bit disappointing to get swept across the board. You know it's a rough go when one of the "pro's" of your course is "seemed like the finishing holes were rushed" . There's no doubt the other courses are superior, guess I'd just thought that I had at least a few interesting ideas/holes going for me that people would enjoy or find cool. Given the immense amount of time I invested into the course, it is a little disheartening to not get that feeling, but I understand it's part of the process and that I have a long way to go in designing a high quality course. That said, I do greatly appreciate the judges time in playing through all of these and providing their honest feedback.

Another congrats to Pablo and Todd on their fantastic work, which clearly outclassed me in the competition, and deservedly so. I have thoroughly enjoyed being a part of this group of designers (using that term loosely for me), hopefully I can figure some things out and work towards creating something that is more polished and fun to play. Thanks Griff for all you've done setting this up and allowing me to participate, and best of luck to my fellow competitors in the upcoming rounds.

Cheers boys.

dont sweat it smooth,

its all subjective at the end.

the light rough on my course was all over the place for the judges,  one said it was a "con", while another said it was a "pro".

[Hootbleet]

Jan 9, 2017 8:32:22 GMT -5 B.Smooth13 said:

Well, even though it was pretty obvious to me what was coming, still a bit disappointing to get swept across the board. You know it's a rough go when one of the "pro's" of your course is "seemed like the finishing holes were rushed" . There's no doubt the other courses are superior, guess I'd just thought that I had at least a few interesting ideas/holes going for me that people would enjoy or find cool. Given the immense amount of time I invested into the course, it is a little disheartening to not get that feeling, but I understand it's part of the process and that I have a long way to go in designing a high quality course. That said, I do greatly appreciate the judges time in playing through all of these and providing their honest feedback.

Another congrats to Pablo and Todd on their fantastic work, which clearly outclassed me in the competition, and deservedly so. I have thoroughly enjoyed being a part of this group of designers (using that term loosely for me), hopefully I can figure some things out and work towards creating something that is more polished and fun to play. Thanks Griff for all you've done setting this up and allowing me to participate, and best of luck to my fellow competitors in the upcoming rounds.

Cheers boys.

You're feeling the same way I did after the web design contest last summer. I came 17th out of 19 iirc, and I thought I put out a good course at the time. Looking back now, I can see the failings of that course. I've now come into this contest and I believe I've given 2 very experienced designers (taste and mroola) a run for their money. I may lose out in the group stage but I know I've made a quality course this time. I've learned so much from these 2 contests and once the disappointment subsides, I'm sure you'll come away from this a better designer, which is only good for the community as a whole.