Group G Judging Results & Scoreboard

[Deleted]

Designer                                                                                           Points

tastegw                                                                                             2

mroola                                                                                               5

Hootbleet                                                                                          5

xgnderpyburger                                                                               2


mroola wins sudden death judging against Hootbleet. mroola advances as winner of Group G; Hootbleet advances as second place. Goof luck in the knockout rounds, gentlemen.

[Deleted]

Kiawah Ivory Coast Course vs Silent Ivy Hotel

Judge 1:
Kiawah Ivory Coast Course vs. Silent Ivy Hotel, Nattavaara SE

Kiawah Ivory Coast Course-
+Solid minimalist design within the theme elements- coast, traps, trees, planting fit
+Wide fairways which started close to tee box sets. Looked like everything was close to the player. Nice views off tees
+Bunkers very nice, especially the framing of the bunkers
+Reuse of community bunkers and hazards for adjacent holes
+Greens large and many locations for multipinning
+Several holes forced the player to work the ball L to R or R to L
+Rock lined lakes and inlets. Tree wells and retaining walls looked great
+Deceptively tough
+Bridges and periphery items felt natural
+All holes fit well, felt like a complete course and not a set of different holes
+Really like hole 13

-Greens blended in w/ fairway too much, couldn't see the greens and shapes due to similar color. Really pulled away from views of approach shots
-Didn't like the light rough color band
-Had some strange sloping putts. i.e. I had a 20ft putt on the 3rd hole that broke L then R then back L and then back R before the cup
-Bottoms of bunkers had some lumps (unnatural piles instead of flat or gradient off defined slopes)
-Why are all pins in the middle of the green? I don't remember playing any front pins, and only a few back pins.
-Hole12 the Right FW is too far from the tee, even downwind would be hard to reach. So what's the point of it? Trying to fool us?
-Whale in the background of 17 and 18, but the water is still shallow and rocky here, doubt it would swim in that water
-Not a fan of Par3 finishing holes

Silent Ivy Hotel:
+Hotel, Range, pathing, all well done and fit theme
+Nice views off tees and for approach shots. Fairways and greens well presented
+Very nicely designed uphill par3s. These are hard to find and pull off- super job here
+Streams and ponds with good natural planting. Great variation in plants and grass height
+Greens have good character. Many tiers and different contours. Lots of potentially good pin placements
+Good job mixing Front/Middle/Back pin locations, and L and R.
+Submerged rocks looked good on slopes
+Contouring of slopes around the greens (runoffs, slight elevations, etc) well done
+8th hole fun design and makes you think
+16th hole
+18th hole very nice finisher
+Really had to plan shots here which I love. Thinking man's golf.

-Cart path color is too red, and really diverts attention from the course. I don't want my eyes to be focusing on the cart path
-Bunkers too white. With the other colors and boreal design, would have preferred something not as bright and jarring
-Hole2 cup in a yellow square. Only saw from 1 of 4 angles.
-Hole4 ledge on left side of green. Could be lowered 6-12" and look much better
-Hole6 FW design was the only one I didn't like. Split fairway starting ~250 yds, but going safer way FW runs out and then blocked view of 2nd shot
-Hole9 FW across from the stream isn't deep enough to hold a shot. wind would have to be at back to carry across stream, but then you'd run through the fairway. Pin also too close to tier
-Too many pins close to tiers. Could benefit from another block or two away
+/- Hole14's drive is great, but would like to see the area left of the fence to be Out of Bounds.

I think I've decided my winner early this time replaying both....SILENT IVY HOTEL

Really liked the shot planning, planting and overall design of this course. It was more fun overall, and a course I would load up and play again before other one.
Both are really good though and think both would be great multipinned tour courses.

Judge 2:
I'm seriously thinking about asking ********** if he wants a job writing my reports for me at work.  I can guarantee low pay, poor working conditions and even worse living conditions here in Ohio.

Well since ********* once again did all of the heavy lifting I will stick with my minimalist judging.

 Kiawah Ivory Coast Course:

  Let's talk about the whale in the room.  Clearly the whale is needed to let the player know that is an ocean and not Lake Erie. (HaHa...it's a joke)
The green/fairway delineation was difficult to see. You had to zoom all the way in on a few holes to see where the green started.
Very nice lay out and good use of joint bunkers/fairways.  Did feel a little bland in regards to planting but had excellent use of rocks around ponds/ocean.
A well made course that was enjoyable to play.

Silent Ivy Hotel:

 The multi-level greens are well done but maybe we don't need one on almost every hole. The cart path is an eye catcher, as in it is the first thing you notice every hole a color change may help.
Good use of planting/rocks. There is a bridge on hole 5 or 6 that would be hazardous to cross I'd hate to get OSHA  involved.
Nice elevation use.  Also a well made course and enjoyed the round.


These are both tour worthy courses in my opinion. Any issues I had with either were minor.

And so, without further gilding the lily, and with no more ado, I give to you the winner of this match up.
Silent Ivy Hotel

[Deleted]

The Low Course at St Bedes vs Devon Rotary CC

Judge 1:
Devon Rotary CC vs. The Low Course at St Bedes

Devon is the first course I've played thus far in the competition that actively attempted to take the driver out of your hand off the tee.  I've always been partial to that type of course.  Looking at the scorecard this course had 4 holes that were between 374 and 376 yds. but thanks to changing up the tee-to-green approach it didn't feel like you were repeatedly playing holes of the same length.  It also helped the course play what I found to be deceptively difficult.  I had a hard time generating much in the way of birdie chances.  I suppose that could be a bad thing or a good thing depending how you look at it.  I liked the use of elevation change as well.  Never anything too severe but just enough to make you have to think about your shot.

As far as course flow goes, however this one was a mess.  Small thing out of the way first the 18th hole was right on a yellow slope.  Big thing, the course made no sense hole-to-hole.  Most noticeable ones were a 2nd tee that would require a golfer to walk halfway back down and across the first fairway to reach.  The walk from the 4th green to 5th tee required walking through a series of bunkers that seem to only be there for decoration purposes.  A golf cart would have no way to get from 4 to 5.  Other holes weren't as blatantly obvious as those two but many would have required going up or down rocky terrain weaving through trees.  This is not the sort of thing I would normally notice but it just stood out so much in this case and seems like a great example of the practicality of including a cart path on a course.  The individual hole design however I found to be fine and everything felt consistent hole-to-hole.

St Bedes was another course where the tee-to-green game was fairly straightforward.  There was good variety in the hole design and even with the more severe elevation changes I still felt it was used well and fit the course however the challenge still seemed rather minimal.  A great course to just relax and enjoy yourself.

From the design perspective I really didn't see anything too obvious.  Looked like a clean hole design job.  Course flowed from one hole to the next and were designed to feel like a part of the environment.  Loved the little touches in creating an ambient setting around the course without it being overwhelming or total overkill when stuff is added just for the sake of adding stuff.  This course just somehow managed to almost feel alive.  Everything just fit so well together and the relaxing and relatively easy round of golf you get to play just seems to fit the relaxing harbourside village setting that was created.  Plus the 11, 12, and 13 stretch of holes are among the nicest looking I've ever played in this game.

Playwise this was a bit harder to choose since I like the approach that Devon takes with making you think a bit more while St Bedes is easy but it works.  This one I'm looking at as a whole package because I think St Bedes comes together as a whole setting and environment better than just about any other course I can remember ever playing.  Devon ends up just being a seies of 18 holes to play in comparison.

Generic scoring:
Devon-7.1/10
St Bedes-8.7/10

Winner:THE LOW COURSE AT ST BEDES


Judge 2:

DEVON ROTARY CC v THE LOW COURSE at ST BEDES

Devon:

Nice look off first tee

Fairway lines throughout course are very neat and well done

Nice use of mulch to frame holes

Hole designs are varied and great

Overall polish was lacking in regards to terrain sculpting outside of the surfaces themselves and not very natural looking even though it's what the GNCD spat out most likely, some smoothing in areas would have worked better IMO for a more realistic look

Planting is nice for the most part

Lightning wasn't really working cohesively with the design of the course, shadows covered a fair few greens that became more noticeable throughout the round, set the lighting that you may use earlier in the design process and plant accordingly with what you see in regards to shadows and their positioning in lower light settings

Would have liked the nice looking clubhouse to be in view from the course too

Overall a fair effort that obviously a lot of time was spent, fine tune some details and we'll see this designer really improve as fairway and green sculpting was really smooth and well done

Gave it a 7.5/10

St Bedes:

Really great look off first tee that I was really impressed by and the views kept coming as the round went on

Loved the ruins on top of the hill and playing through them, really cool! Well done on the finish and presentation of the ruins and the arch between the tee and playing ground on 2 from memory also

Hole designs and green complexes are good

Bunkering is great

Lighting is perfect for the setting

Planting is great

The course plays well firm and at the green speeds they are

Not a lot to say in regards to presentation of playability of the course that is a detractor

Gave it a 9/10

WINNER IS THE LOW COURSE at ST BEDES!!

[Deleted]

Kiawah Ivory Coast Course vs The Low Course at St Bedes

Judge 1:
Because of family reasons, I might not get a report in for my rounds on Kiawah Ivory Coast v The Low Course at St Bedes. With so many excellent reports coming in for the courses, I am sure there is plenty for judges comments. If I can edit this over next couple of days I will but in the meantime, after a couple of play thoughs, my winner of this match up is

Kiawah Ivory Coast. 

It it was a close one this time round, but to me, Kiawah just sneaks it on playability.

Judge 2:

Kiawah Ivory Coast Course vs. The Low Course at St Bedes

Kiawah Ivory Coast

Pros - Fabulous Bunkers.. Great Fairways. Good Greens. Nice planting. Clean as can be. It's the kind of course I would love in real life.

Cons - Missing the Fun Factor. Each hole seems the same. No "Wow look at this hole" thoughts during my round. Although the course was technically as good as one can be from a perfection point of view. It was a bit boring for me.

The Low Course at St Bedes

Pros - Shot creativity off the tee. Elevation Changes. Lighting. FUN.

Cons - I feel like the fairways did not flow with the elevation changes as well as they could have. I think the grass could have been thicker or bunched together in place more. Some pieces were off on their own and I would want to get a weed eater after them.

This was a really hard choice for me. Tough matchup. Both courses are superb. Kiawah was cleaner but a bit boring. The Low Course was not as clean but was a TON more fun to play. That is why I give it the edge in the matchup..

Winner = The Low Course at St Bedes

[Deleted]

Silent Ivy Hotel vs Devon Rotary CC

Judge 1:
Silent Ivy Hotel, Nattavaara, SE vs Devon Rotary CC

Silent Ivy course was a beautiful looking course, good framerates, good planting all round ( i did notice some weeds in 1st cut on 15th) and a really nice layout. However this course was let down with the greens. I am not a fan of RED slopes on any greens, to me if a slope is 2ft+ then the poor greenskeeper has no chance of ever mowing it
I felt you were not rewarded for good shots. I am also not sure the bright brown/red paths worked i would have preferred a different texture use
Score 6.5

Devon Rotary was again a beautiful looking course, some tricky fairways with tee shots that made you think where to place ball, planting and bunkering were very good, framerates were good. Was not keen on the rocks just to the edge of the 1st green as these could quite easily become problematic if a stray shot were to land there due to the game physics, if you want rocks that close then make them OB to save this issue. This was really my only issue. The greens were better than Silent Ivy and although sloped the were not unfair, good shots were rewarded.
Score 7.5

Winner Devon Rotary

Judge 2:

Silent Ivy
I enjoyed this course. Only thing I could nit pick is the blinding red cart paths.

Devon Rotary

Some nice bunkering
Not a fan of no light rough.

Winner

Silent Ivy

[Deleted]

Kiawah Ivory Coast Course vs Devon Rotary CC

Judge 1:
Kiawah Ivory Coast vs Devon Rotary

Devon Rotary- The course starts off with an average looking tee shot on a flat tee box (not a fan). I noticed there is no light rough...not a deal breaker, just not a real fan of that look. In a contest, could that be considered a small side step? Moving on, I scan the first hole and see a gazebo off in the deep rough to the right and also a rectangular shaped flower bed with two kinds of plants, but they're all the same size and direction. I look up towards the green and see a rock wall with some planting that looks pretty good. Not a great first hole, but not too bad. The greens is receptive and fits the build. Move on to the second hole and it feels much like the first. There is a large waste bunker to the right of the green and then a very small pot bunker in front of the large waste bunker. That made no sense to me, and it didn't look natural. The fairway is split with some water and the portion of fairway that runs from the water to the green has a self generated feel and look to it. Not saying it is, just looks and feels that way. Moving on to 3, I finally like the tee boxes (not flat), and the hole itself is a straight forward par 3 but pretty good. The bunkers off the 5th tee are just blah, and I can't get on board with hole 6. The design here on most holes are forgettable. Nothing stands out. There is a bunker complex that in quite intricate, but I don't know if it works here, especially since it's all out of play. I guess it's neat to look at?

The rest of the course just feels like rinse and repeat to me. No stand out hole, and the bunker choices on most holes just doesn't work for me. The use of the "E" shaped bunkers are way over used, and I also dislike the use of the thin rectangular bunkers. Just doesn't look very good. The course is not terrible, but there is not much here to keep me interested. It looks and feels like a first time design, and compared to the first two courses I've already played and reviewed yesterday, this would be far below both of those for me.

Kiawah Ivory Coast- I start here and love the look off the first tee. I see great sculpting, great lighting, and really like the choices for the fairway, light rough and rough. The designer here is using a simple, clean look and it works very well. Go to the second hole and it's a very nice par 3. Hole 3 provides another nice looking tee shot, with great sculpting. The course is wide open and looks and feels like a PGA stop. Move on to the 4th hole and there's a transition here from open to a more woodsy feel. Trees line the fairway and close things up a bit, and it works great here. On your approach shot you can see the designer did some immaculate and what appears to be some very meticulous rock work. This looks very nice. Aside from the aesthetics here, you're presented with some challenging and thought provoking golf. Miss your mark, and you'll be holding some of your hair in your hand I felt the challenge was lacking from all the course I've played thus far, and this was a welcome change for me. Moving on to hole 5, the designer has utilized the pond from hole 4 and carried it over to this hole as well, and it works very well. You move on to hole 6, and you can see Dr. Yeti in the background at the lighthouse Moving on to hole 7...this was my favorite hole! Superb look off the tee, with an island in the background, superb sculpting and bunker work here. I literally just sat on the tee box for a moment here and stared at the designers work. If that doesn't look and feel like something you see in a golf magazine, nothing does. The tee box area on 9 was very well done. Hole 12...another SUPERB looking hole off the tee!!

This course is very well done. I really try to find flaws on every course, and I feel I need to play this again to find some, or at least find something I don't like. If I had to pick a couple things people may find as negatives here, I guess the challenge and the lack of a lot of fluff. This course has a lot of things going for it...great look, really nice hole design, nice sculpting, nice planting and rock work, challenging, and I'm going to say this too...THE ROCK SLIDER WAS TURNED OFF HERE!!!!!!! I played two courses yesterday where that really bothered me. The better courses will not have that issue in my opinion.

Verdict...

Kiawah Ivory Coast- 9

Devon Rotary- 5

Judge 2:
Kiawah Ivory Coast Course:

Pros:

The coastline is effective on the second hole.

Hole 4, good stone work along the hole.

The bridge background on hole 10 is effective.

Rock work on tee shot of 12 is very good.

I like the lighthouse in the distance on 18.  The closing hole looks like a closing hole.

Cons:

The opening hole looks rather non-descript.

The greens have more fringe than a gathering of female porn stars.  Personally, I don't like that nor the second shot on hole 1 where it looks like you have to hit it over a fence to get to the green.

Hole 3:  The waypoint for the drive is really bad.  It's obvious the designer wanted to force people into a short tee shot but a full drive is wide open....but you have to pan far to the right.  Just bad design.

Hole 5:  The tee shot looks like the approach shot for hole 4.  

The color palette is harsh looking to me.

Everything just looks the same...it's so........plain.


Summary:  There's nothing special here.  It's a decent course but there's nothing that would make me want to play it again.



Devon Rotary:

Pros:

Killer opening tee shot.  I love the Gazebo on the right as it's placed where one should be...next to a river or water item & flowers around it.  

Love the rock work on hole 1...makes the elevated green make sense.

I like the step look of the tee boxes on 2.

The flow of the hillsides with the holes is fantastic.  Very natural looking.  

I could comment in more detail but all the holes look fantastic to me.  The planting is natural, the contours of the land is natural, there's a real positive flow to it.

Love the lowered green on 14. Looks good with the water.


Cons:

Shadows on the green at 4 make the putt much harder than it should be.

Don't care for the fairway behind the hole on 7.  Unnecessary and odd looking.

There are some repetitive things like the step tee boxes showing up again on 9...it's different enough in terms of height differences so it's not identical and most folks wouldn't notice if not looking for it.

Is that a wall on 17?  A dam?  A path?  An overuse of that particular designing item??


Devon Rotary CC is the first course I've played in this tournament that I am adding to my favorites list and plan to play again.

Devon Rotary CC wins 

[Deleted]

Silent Ivy Hotel vs The Low Course at St Bedes

Judge 1:
Silent Ivy

First glance from the opening hole, I was not a fan of the cart path texture. Like ********** review, I think the designer could have gone with a lighter texture
for cart path. The lighting was perfect. No tree shadows on the green to obstruct view to the hole.

Planting was evenly distributed through the course and pleasing to the eye. Bunkers were perfectly smoothed and placed well.
Hole 12 retaining wall was perfect, he did well to smooth out heavy rough right up to the edge of the retaining wall, something designers do not take the time to do. So I appreciated that.

This course as far as greens go is a thinker. Pin placements were a bit too close for comfort with the sloped greens. I also am not a fan over overly sloped greens,
but in all fairness, they were manageable even if you missed your mark. Green firmness in my opinion was spot on. Some very nice fencework on several holes. Par 5's played well enough to give a golfer opportunity to eagle or at least birdie.
The 18 hole heading in was a bit disappointing as far as clubhouse goes, I do however see how he was working toward making this a rustic forest type course, so nothing was overdone in that sense, just for me
was not that pleasing to heading home. I felt like I was heading into a golf cart shack rather than a clubhouse.

Overall I liked the course, some pin adjustments needed as I felt some of the holes were a bit to close to a severe slope on green. cart path texture needs a fix.
For me personally I would change up the clubhouse on 18. I felt like I was heading into a golf cart shack rather than a clubhouse.
I would score this course a 7 out of 10

The Low Course @ St Bedes

There were several things wrong with this course.
Planting of the grass was too extreme and too close to greens on several holes. It overwhelmed the course.
Sand traps could use some smoothing but overall were fine, I would eliminate grass in sand and grass in heavy rough areas that are edged so close to green.
Anyone who rolled off green into heavy rough would have to deal with obstructive view from tall grass.
Sand dunes covered in grass, could have been scattered here and there maybe some large rocks placed as well. If they were meant to be sand dunes then there should be some hills and valleys.
It overwhelmed the course.
With that being said I feel there is much potential in this course with some adjustments to planting.
I enjoyed the coastal layout especially from Hole 10-18. I loved the look of the ruins on 11,
but felt he should have left it at that and not carried through to hole 12. If indeed they were meant to be ancient ruins, one would not be allowed
to create a hole so close to the ruins, and should have been kept at a distance.

Lightening for me could have been improved, was a bit in the face on several holes.
Greens played well, did not find them overly drastic, but once again I feel designers should stay away from red sloping so close to a pin position.

I would rate this 5 out of 10

Winner is Silent Ivy


Judge 2:

Silent Ivy Hotel:
Fantastic golf course in almost every aspect. Overall I give this a 8.5
+The greens and fairways are the biggest pluses. Varied routings with ever-changing landing zones off the tee, and forcing the golfer to think about each approach shot - I like that a lot. Beautiful green complexes - i love the movement, and the thought that went into where the ball must land to find the hole. Pin locations = excellent (with a couple of exceptions). A lot of thought went into these placements.
+Excellent bunkering. Period.
+Some fantastic views off the tee on most holes. Aesthetically, a gorgeous course. Love the lighting, love the textures, love the placement of trees and water and plantings are well done.
+You don't just bash it and grin. This is a thinking golfer's course - love that.
+Great continuity/organic flow. This feels like a complete golf course, not a collection of different holes in succession.
+Pretty finishing hole.

-Hated the color of the cart path. Ugh. Lose the brick red, get with some sienna/brown/earth tones. The path color should compliment the colors of your course pallette, not starkly contrast against it.
-Lose the red stakes around water. I've said it before and I'll say it again: redundant. Everyone knows that landing in water is a lost stroke. It gives the impression that the designer was just putting stakes around just to put stakes around.
-Didn't like the distance on 14. Total cock-tease. A 360 yard par 4 should be at least a possible eagle - even if with extreme following winds - but this is an impossibility even if you had a hurricane behind you. Worse, you can't even use driver or 3 wood. Having to club down to a 3 or 4 iron off the tee on this is a real slap in the face.
-Nobody likes to see red within 3 squares of the hole. On multi-tiered greens, move that pin at least another block away. I also saw yellow within 1 square on #2 and I think on another. Easily fixable on tournament versions though.

Overall, fantastic course, and the few negatives are easily fixable. I really enjoyed my round and found it both challenging and aggravating in a good way, punishing myself for not making better shots. 8.5.

The Low Course at St. Bedes
Overall a beautiful links course; I gave it a 8.8
+Gorgeous lighting, textures, aesthetically just beautiful. Loved the use of buildings/villages, lighthouses, fishing trawlers. Felt so realistic and rustic.
+Superb bunkering. Loved the use of grass inside the bunkers, gave it a real earthy, organic and natural feel.
+Cart Path well done. Blended nicely.
+Very "linksy" greens. Lots of movement, ground game is important on the approaches. Could be a bit firmer, but this will probably make the course more accessible than if done with pure links-style greens all around.
+Gorgeous views off most tees. Aesthetically, this is one of the better-looking courses I have seen.
+Some really unique and gorgeous hole routings. 9 is a perfect example. Ditto 16. And 18.
+The ruins on #11 - fantastic idea, very original, and very well done. Just don't hit your ball into them....


-Grass/plantings a bit too close around several greens. If your shots waver a bit off-course, you almost always wind up hitting without being able to see your ball or lie. Push that grass back a ways from the fringe.

I must say: loved the course. THAT'S links golf So many aspire to create a great links course - so many come up short. This designer did not.

Although they were both absolutely excellent courses, for me: the winner is The Low Course at St. Bedes.

[mrooola]

Good luck everyone!

[Hootbleet]

I guess this means results will be coming in soon.

Does the poll have any baring on the results or is it just about gauging public opinion?

Good luck, mroola, taste and derpy.

[ACES-R-WILD]

it has no baring on the results

[tastegw]

Congrats

[Hootbleet]

Well played mroola and taste, good luck in the knockout stages fellas.

[Moe Slorkman]

Jan 8, 2017 17:39:03 GMT -5 Hootbleet said:

Well played mroola and taste, good luck in the knockout stages fellas.

Hold your horses the results aren't all in yet!

I only know because I made the same mistake

[bigned56]

Many great new courses to play
thanks guys the winner is all of
us that play the game

[Hootbleet]

Jan 8, 2017 17:45:50 GMT -5 Moe Slorkman said:

Jan 8, 2017 17:39:03 GMT -5 Hootbleet said:

Well played mroola and taste, good luck in the knockout stages fellas.

Hold your horses the results aren't all in yet!

I only know because I made the same mistake

Really Moe, I won 1 and lost 2, Taste and Ola, won 2 and lost 1. All of the match results have been posted??? Having said that I don't understand the point totals, maybe I'm just tired and thick