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Post by bigcat023 on Oct 15, 2016 23:22:21 GMT -5
You shoot -33 but think it should have shot -40 and you complain.Sorry it was so difficult.
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Post by tastegw on Oct 15, 2016 23:31:51 GMT -5
You shoot -33 but think it should have shot -40 and you complain.Sorry it was so difficult. Nvm his score bigcat, those pins are on yellow lines. That just is not acceptable on any tour here. Especially on fast greens. A fluke pin is ok, just an oversight, but when there is a handful, it should have been caught and fixed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 23:51:28 GMT -5
You shoot -33 but think it should have shot -40 and you complain.Sorry it was so difficult. Nvm his score bigcat, those pins are on yellow lines. That just is not acceptable on any tour here. Especially on fast greens. A fluke pin is ok, just an oversight, but when there is a handful, it should have been caught and fixed. It was rangered....a lot. Let's forget that some of those pics are by cam on the approach (which, as a designer you know is not accurate)... the standard we use is no yellow/red in the grid box the pin sits in +1 in any direction. We are as thorough as possible in making sure that the courses meet that standard. That being said, yes, over 4 rounds there may be a pin or 2 that is right on the fringe or questionable. It's hard to justify having a course being repinned over 1 questionable pin. As a designer, you also know that certain lines only show as yellow depending on where the ball sits in relation to the pin. In MOST of those pics those lines wouldn't show as yellow if the ball was sitting on those same lines...which is why they didn't show up for the 8+ rangers that said they were good to go. OP, if you know that missing right is a bad shot and you still miss right then you should have managed the hole better. Taste...I'm not trying to be an ass here, but you know how greens work, man. If you or anybody else seriously thinks this is an issue or the norm AND has the time to insure this never happens, then by all means let me know and the job is all yours. I swear some of you have no idea or respect for what it takes behind the scenes as VOLUNTEERS to make this stuff happen...and then wonder why people like Loughery fold up shop. I can't blame him, and I'm not far from it myself. The more you do to make the community better the more complaints you get from the peanut gallery.
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Post by jack kersting on Oct 15, 2016 23:53:12 GMT -5
Thanks gruff but when it was just all over the course
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 23:57:39 GMT -5
Thanks gruff but when it was just all over the course No, it wasn't. Pics from approach cam aren't accurate as to what the lines show on the green...at all. It only shows the slope in relation to the distance.
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Post by tastegw on Oct 16, 2016 4:10:31 GMT -5
@griff I was not trying to insult anyone with my comments, and do hold on to them as truth. I have great respect for anyone who volunteers their free time to benefit the community, whether its an online golf community or a real life community. With that said, it does not mean I have to agree with their opinions and or findings on any particular subject. But, without the volunteers we do have, this site simply would not exist as it does or exist at all. As to the grids not telling the truth from different angles, I disagree that the grids are inaccurate from those screenshots posted from approach shots vs the grids from on the putting surface being more accurate. I will explain why. The grids are generated with different points of origin throughout the game. So from point to point, they may differ from one generated angle than the next, that does not mean any generation is more correct or incorrect than the other. The grids are a mathematically flawed, since they do not offer a true flow of any green unless the flow is a perfectly straight line from any angle. To help show this effect, I have below a very awful windows paint illustration (I have recently reformatted my computer and have not got around to installing my real photo editor)
In the above image, we have three different points of origin of a generic green grid. The orange line represents a dip in the green Green, Blue, and Red, pay no attention to the colors other than the colors being different points of origin. Green represents the grids being generated from position A Blue represents the grids being generated from position B Red represents the grids being generated from position C You can assign any of these three points of origin to a tee shot, an approach shot from a random location, or from the putting surface. As you can see, the same green, unchanged, can generate different grid patterns from different points of origin. The Red point of origin "position C" generates a perfectly flat line, even though its obvious on closer inspection that there is indeed a dip in the middle between the two points of the grid line The Blue point of origin "position B" generates a more accurate representation than of the break than the Red point The Green point of origin "position A" generates the most accurate representation than both Blue and Red But none of the points of origin represent a truly accurate representation of how the green actually flows, and this is why all 3 need to be taken into account in determining a good guesstimate. So if one angle shows yellow grid lines, but another does not, you should count it as yellow as that is the worst case and the ball can and will react to that more so than the angle that did not show it. We have all seen pins that had grids around it all showing flat with no movements in the beads, only to find out there was indeed break to to one way or the other, that is just another example of how the origin of the grids play a role into the mathematical flaw of not representing a true portrait. Back to yellow slopes.... As a designer, I am guilty of this on more than one occasion, as many of us are from time to time. Hell I have even seen pin locations get changed once you hit publish. I had a pin on Redwood get moved off the green entirely. So I know there are bugs here and there that can sweep in unannounced. I was not trying to point a finger and place blame on anyone, I was just calling it as it was and the statement was more generalized than anything. bigcat used an argument about the -33 score as some sort of reason why complaining was not an option, I was simply saying scores dont matter when it comes to issues like that. But I do urge any and every ranger who is unsure about how the green grids are generated from different points of origin to read the above and understand that they can be different from different shots, and to not just toss out the results from approaches vs keeping the results they seen while on the greens, because that is not how it works. If I was able to control where the grids were set, I could show you nice soft green grid lines being used when red grid lines would have been more accurate, but since I can't, the above illustration is what we I have to settle with for the time being.
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Post by mde8965 on Oct 16, 2016 6:46:13 GMT -5
Nvm his score bigcat, those pins are on yellow lines. That just is not acceptable on any tour here. Especially on fast greens. A fluke pin is ok, just an oversight, but when there is a handful, it should have been caught and fixed. It was rangered....a lot. Let's forget that some of those pics are by cam on the approach (which, as a designer you know is not accurate)... the standard we use is no yellow/red in the grid box the pin sits in +1 in any direction. We are as thorough as possible in making sure that the courses meet that standard. That being said, yes, over 4 rounds there may be a pin or 2 that is right on the fringe or questionable. It's hard to justify having a course being repinned over 1 questionable pin. As a designer, you also know that certain lines only show as yellow depending on where the ball sits in relation to the pin. In MOST of those pics those lines wouldn't show as yellow if the ball was sitting on those same lines...which is why they didn't show up for the 8+ rangers that said they were good to go. OP, if you know that missing right is a bad shot and you still miss right then you should have managed the hole better. Taste...I'm not trying to be an ass here, but you know how greens work, man. If you or anybody else seriously thinks this is an issue or the norm AND has the time to insure this never happens, then by all means let me know and the job is all yours. I swear some of you have no idea or respect for what it takes behind the scenes as VOLUNTEERS to make this stuff happen...and then wonder why people like Loughery fold up shop. I can't blame him, and I'm not far from it myself. The more you do to make the community better the more complaints you get from the peanut gallery. Griff - I hate reading posts like this. This is not against you at all. I am just saying, no matter what you and anyone else does at TGC or any other venue or public service, you are not going to make everyone happy and their will always be complaints about something. When you got into the rangering and other volunteer activities here you had to know you were going to need thick skin to do the job. I do a lot of volunteer work for my church. But yet, no matter how hard I try, someone criticizes the decisions and work that I do. I don't like it. But I step back and notice that of the 120 members of my church, there are probably 110 that benefit from the work I am doing, and 10 that find fault in it (sometimes rightly so maybe). So I keep doing it and it gives me a sense of worth and that I am making my little slice of the world a better place. Same with you, there is roughly, what, 500 or 1000 active players around here? I would go out on a limb and say 99%+ of that appreciates what you are doing and benefits from it. You are helping to make their (gaming) life better... Yes you are going to come under scrutiny sometimes. Maybe the point is a valid one in this case, I am not getting into that. And maybe the subject line "Veto CC Pro Week 2" was not really an appropriate way/subject line to voice those concerns, but it is what it is. Sorry for talking in platitudes, but just remember before thinking of packing it in that you are doing a lot of good for a lot of people, where else can you say that outside of your family? Don't stop doing what you are doing...
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Post by Clint Kelso on Oct 16, 2016 6:55:32 GMT -5
Im not trying to be rude but this course is unfair on a lot of holes. I don't have all the pics but there are at least 10 pins on or within in 3x3 of yellow. i shot -33 but there were some pins that were unfair. I played the best 4 rounds of my life, but i felt least -40 was what i played worthy of. The course yields a lot of birdies but it gets very frustrating to put it a 1 ft and it to roll of the green. that ball stopped and rolled off i remember i hit i chip to that spot and it rolled of lucky chipped in, but you on the wrong side you're done. And this one slopes away form you ridiculous. Thank You, jack k Your a ranger correct. Then it falls on us to check this out before it's published, also its not the right place. Don't scrutinize someone's course in a public forum. It's a beautiful course and we all have to play on the same greens. Aim better. I'm betting if u shoot -33 next week u finish in top 5. Just sayin. But like Griff said. When u take pictures of greens. We need the putter cam. Not the cam from the fairway..... shoot well this week brother
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Post by digsb on Oct 16, 2016 7:03:49 GMT -5
Just to stick up for @griff I rangered this course and found no issues on the course.My exact words were. "This would be a testing course for cc'ers. " Now as an ex Cc'er I would love to play courses that made you think. Looking at the above screenshots I can see many landing spots that would leave an easy-ish putt. Pick your landing area,hit the shot,reap the rewards. The course is the same for everyone.
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Post by jack kersting on Oct 17, 2016 19:18:39 GMT -5
Sorry I did not mean any respect It came off wrong and I just want to apologize for the all the hours that rangers do is phenomenal and I can't say the same. I was demoted back toa caddy because of the post and I just want to say thank you for the ride and hope y'all have a great time
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Post by tastegw on Oct 18, 2016 0:57:48 GMT -5
I have been demoted to illegal immigrant
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Post by mnguy12000 on Oct 18, 2016 8:20:27 GMT -5
here is my beef with this course. While the general area might be flat the lead up to it isn't. the par 3 on the first round where it is on the back finger and rolls off right and left it not a good placement. The designer should have flatten that area to the left and right to eliminate the red and yellow breaks.
The problem is the med med setting with 167 speed. With these slopes I feel it plays closer to fast green speed. The greens are way to undulating around the pins for any long putt to stay close. It seemed in my first practice round I could not land the ball short as most greens where set to slope to the back.
NOW it is nice that -40 isn't likely going to win, but it feels like the pins are close enough to the holes where only by accident are you rewarded with a great shot.
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Post by bigned56 on Oct 18, 2016 8:36:22 GMT -5
Fast greens,slow greens,tough pins,easy pins soft greens,hard greens, its a game.Its the same for everybody get on with it and enjoy the good and bad of it.Lets have anti-moan month
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Post by gdog on Oct 18, 2016 15:30:40 GMT -5
I thought id play the tourney and see what the fuss is about. Wasn't as bad as people made out. There were a few questionable greens but not many. The 2nd being one of the worst offenders.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Oct 18, 2016 16:14:40 GMT -5
Not the greatest pin positions for a tournament...but whatcha gonna do? We pretty much gotta play what's set out for us
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