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Post by brianfuller75 on May 8, 2016 19:11:31 GMT -5
I have just received a demotion email which I was expecting. No problem there! However the email is a little misleading. It states that I have been outside the top 70, 3 times without being in the top 30. This actually is wrong. My lowest finish was 67th and my highest 27th. So I have never been outside the top 70 in the period concerned, and I have been in the top 30. The markers for demotion seem to vary from week to week, as do the demotion clearances. Perhaps the email should be reworded, as it may well cause confusion.
I shall do my best to get back up to CC-C as soon as possible (putting permitting).
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Post by TimB on May 9, 2016 6:00:25 GMT -5
I got one a week or two ago. Which I promptly and rage filled deleted it lol j/k
I think its a remnant of back before the dynamic cut lines where you had to finish in the 70 to avoid a strike. They just havent found the time to redo some of the auto generated emails.
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Post by SmilingGoats on May 9, 2016 7:47:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up. I have fixed this just now.
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Post by brianfuller75 on May 9, 2016 7:59:41 GMT -5
As I am one of those people who hover between two flights, CC-C and CC-D, I am always trying to work out where I stand. Some weeks after round one and two is published it seems that I am safe from a demotion strike, only to find that the cut off point is quite high that week. Also the exemption cut off also seems to be quite high at the same time, although that doesn't usually bother me in CC-C, only,like now, when I am spending a spell in CC-D. I suppose a dynamic cut off point keeps us on our toes. One thing that does seems to be relevant, is that when there are a high number of withdrawals the cut offs seem high. as if the "no shows" aren't taken into account! I would think that the cut offs are calculated on a proportion of the entries, not of the finishers. For example, and I know this will never happen,but if there were only 4 finishers, would we have 1 exemption, 1 demotion strike cleaned off, 1 no change, and 1 demotion strike? Of course all the withdrawals would get a demotion strike, but this shouldn't penalize the finishers. I know I have probably overthought this, but sometimes these things just run through my head! .......yes, I know, I'm a bit "sad"
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Post by SmilingGoats on May 9, 2016 8:19:08 GMT -5
I'm not clear on what you are advocating...are you saying that you prefer that the demotion strike line be 50% of the finishers or 50% of the entrants?
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Post by ErixonStone on May 9, 2016 8:27:35 GMT -5
Pretty sure he was advocating that the dynamic cutlines be based off the number of entrants and that players who no-showed to officially finish tied for last.
In an extreme example, if 100 players registered and only 50 played all 4 rounds, then no one who finished the tournament would be given a demotion strike, 22 players would clear their strikes, and 15 players would earn an exemption.
I don't know that I agree, as that system is open for exploit. Players could register several times and not finish the tournament, giving themselves a better opportunity to earn an exemption, clear strikes, avoid a strike.
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Post by livingit on May 9, 2016 9:08:41 GMT -5
Thats the good thing about being CC-Z , no more demotion !
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Post by brianfuller75 on May 9, 2016 10:38:07 GMT -5
Patrick is spot on. That is what I'm saying. If you play badly and post scores that will earn you a demotion strike, that should be exactly the same as not posting. Which is what I think happens now. There's no benefit from not posting. What I am saying is if the demotion strike line is at 50% for example, then it should be 50% of entries - NOT 50% of finishers. Withdrawal numbers should not affect the prospects of those that finish.
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Post by curtmantle on May 9, 2016 12:56:32 GMT -5
I totally agree with Brian - the current dynamic cutline system is flawed in my opinion.
There must be a number of people each tournament who bomb in the first couple of rounds and don't bother to finish. The majority of non-finishers in each flight are people already below the demotion strike line so if these people aren't included in the dynamic cutlines calculation it skews those lines towards lower (better) scores making it harder to get an exemption and clear strikes and easier to get a demotion strike, which seems unfair on those who do see it through.
If 100 people start the tournament, 40 should get demotion strikes and that should include the non-finishers imo (but not those who didn't start).
I also don't think such a system would be exploited - it would take more effort than the vast majority of people would be prepared to put in.
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Post by SmilingGoats on May 9, 2016 16:50:04 GMT -5
What I am saying is if the demotion strike line is at 50% for example, then it should be 50% of entries - NOT 50% of finishers. But it is currently 50% of entrants. It is not 50% of finishers...the calculation of the Demotion line is 50% of the total field.
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Post by Doyley on May 9, 2016 17:04:14 GMT -5
In an extreme example, if 100 players registered and only 50 played all 4 rounds, then no one who finished the tournament would be given a demotion strike, 22 players would clear their strikes, and 15 players would earn an exemption. This is how it is currently - all cutlines (exemption, demotion and clear strike) are based off a percentage of the total # of registered members. There were a couple of events where a setting didn't get changed (my bad!) but in general the demotion strike line is always 50%, the clear strike line is always 22.5 percent and the exemptions are 5% (CC-A), 15% (CC-B thru E) and 10% (CC-Z). Those last ones are all subject to change as we see fit - ie once the CC-Z flight fills up we'll bump it up to 15%. If the Web.com thins out we'll bump up the CC-A as well.
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Post by ErixonStone on May 9, 2016 17:42:36 GMT -5
In an extreme example, if 100 players registered and only 50 played all 4 rounds, then no one who finished the tournament would be given a demotion strike, 22 players would clear their strikes, and 15 players would earn an exemption. This is how it is currently - all cutlines (exemption, demotion and clear strike) are based off a percentage of the total # of registered members. There were a couple of events where a setting didn't get changed (my bad!) but in general the demotion strike line is always 50%, the clear strike line is always 22.5 percent and the exemptions are 5% (CC-A), 15% (CC-B thru E) and 10% (CC-Z). Those last ones are all subject to change as we see fit - ie once the CC-Z flight fills up we'll bump it up to 15%. If the Web.com thins out we'll bump up the CC-A as well. This is what happens when you take the word of others and don't verify facts. For all you budding journalists out there. Anyway, I checked last week's CC-D results. 107 entrants, 91 finishers. T-49th avoided strikes. If the cutlines were based on (91) finishers and not (107) entrants, only the top 45 and ties would have avoided strikes. The big group at -18 would have gotten strikes.
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Post by curtmantle on May 10, 2016 3:25:23 GMT -5
In an extreme example, if 100 players registered and only 50 played all 4 rounds, then no one who finished the tournament would be given a demotion strike, 22 players would clear their strikes, and 15 players would earn an exemption. This is how it is currently - all cutlines (exemption, demotion and clear strike) are based off a percentage of the total # of registered members. There were a couple of events where a setting didn't get changed (my bad!) but in general the demotion strike line is always 50%, the clear strike line is always 22.5 percent and the exemptions are 5% (CC-A), 15% (CC-B thru E) and 10% (CC-Z). Those last ones are all subject to change as we see fit - ie once the CC-Z flight fills up we'll bump it up to 15%. If the Web.com thins out we'll bump up the CC-A as well. Oops. I figured it didn't work that way because someone I know moved below the strike line very late on and I assumed it was because the non-finishers had been removed but it must have been a number of people finishing up very late on. I should have double-checked though. Sorry. I'm glad it does work that way though.
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Post by brianfuller75 on May 10, 2016 4:14:30 GMT -5
As I started this thread, I feel that I must chip in and say that I got it wrong about the dynamic demotion strike line. I have done my own calculation on CC-C last week and the line falls at 50% of entries. I got the wrong idea as I hadn't fully understood the system. My gut reaction (not always reliable!) was that the line was always too high. I didn't know it was 50%, as the previous system top 70 mark was usually something like 60-65%.
The only thing I would say, just a personal opinion, is that it is hard to clear strikes and stay in the current flight. Out of an entry of 98, 15 got an exemption , 17 withdrew and got demotion strike, 24 got a demotion strike because of low finish, 36 stood still, but didn't clear their strikes. Only 6 cleared their strikes.
This would account for people like me going up and down like a yo-yo. I think I have been demoted 3 times this season, and gone back up twice.
I suppose that is what "Dynamic" means. Onwards and Upwards, and then back down again. Keeps life interesting!
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Post by Doyley on May 10, 2016 11:44:52 GMT -5
This would account for people like me going up and down like a yo-yo. I think I have been demoted 3 times this season, and gone back up twice. We need a CC-C.5 so you can unpack your bags and settle in!
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