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Post by coggin66 on Apr 22, 2016 19:03:36 GMT -5
I have just come through a tricky week on Web and TST and I'm also in the process of multi-pinning my latest course. I was wondering how the top course designers approach the multi-pin process.
I'm taking the approach of changing the conditions to what I want (i.e. weather, firmness & green speed) and then firing shots into various parts of the green and then placing the pin in that general area.
I see other pin setups where it almost seems the opposite i.e. I can't get the ball anywhere near that point on approach so I'll place the pin there.
My pet hate at the moment on firm and fast setups is not being able to run the ball up from the fairway onto the green to get in the general area of the pin (i.e. within 10-15 feet if judged correctly). Too often we get tucked pins that need to hit the lucky patch of rough to bounce close. More often that not, the safer option ends up being to play for the chip / flop from the rough. In my opinion both the Web and TST courses this week were guilty of over-doing this.
Anyway, interested to get other designers views and insights into their processes. Perhaps one of you could even stream your process.
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Post by edi_vedder on Apr 22, 2016 19:47:42 GMT -5
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Post by csugolfer60 on Apr 22, 2016 19:48:44 GMT -5
Here's an example from Midnight Sun, number 3 - I have fairways and green speeds maxed out. First pin - Front middle. I will move the tee box up because the player needs a shorter club into this pin. I'm tucking it against the front edge, which means in this case the player who hits it to the center of the green will have an uphill putt. Leaving it short will leave a touchy bunker shot downhill. A player who is crafty will hit a high fade into the fairway short and bounce it onto the green. A player who takes it right at the hole will not be able to stop the ball near the hole, but has the whole green. So, to get it close to the hole, the player has to invent a shot by running it up on to the green with a lot of fade. It's dangerous, but pays off.
Second pin - Back Left. I'll use the back tee box, because a long, running shot will allow players to get near it, so they can be hitting longer clubs in. A player who goes right at the hole will bounce to the right, or over the green. A thinking player will land the ball in the front portion, and bank it off the back right mound, moving the ball toward the hole. They can get it within 10-15 feet on this long par 4. Pin 3 - Middle. I will use the second tee box, so the average shot will be a long iron or 5 wood. A shot straight at the hole will bounce on the front portion and run past the hole, leaving a downhiller from the back portion. A crafty player will play a high fade, landing on the front left portion, and running the ball into the mound, where it will funnel back toward the hole. Pin 4 - Back tee box, but probably the easiest on the green. A 5 or 3 wood into the green will probably run through the green, but a high fade landing in the front left portion and running into the mound will stop the ball, and funnel it down toward the hole.
Basically, 4 separate "shots" required for the 4 pins to create 4 unique setups.
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Post by mrooola on Apr 22, 2016 20:01:38 GMT -5
And that ladies and gentlemen is why CSUgolfer is one of the best in the biz.
I'll never design a green with that kind of though process I imagine.
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Post by coggin66 on Apr 22, 2016 20:53:01 GMT -5
Thanks Gents. That's the sort of insight that I was interested in hearing.
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Post by coggin66 on Apr 22, 2016 21:03:40 GMT -5
I had a look for this but doesn't seem to be in his Twitch archive.
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Post by rod81simo on Apr 22, 2016 21:08:22 GMT -5
Yeah I'm with Dario's thought process for mine, I normally use atleast 2 if not 3 or 4 different tee boxes per hole across the 4 setups, overall length brings about possible approach shot length possibilities which lead to pin positions. I also like to mix up my par 3s and 5s in particular to vary in length the most overall as the par 5s can become risk/reward reachable holes and vice versa strategic 3 shotters, par 3s vary in length regarding a pin position I have in mind. Also I regards to par 4s I like to design a short and possible reachable par 4 but have it play longer on a couple of days, it's interesting that the hole could play easier with the greater lengthy as pitching is so accurate in game but also shows that risk/reward does pay off in game to as going for the green is not always the highest probability of a lower score.... At the end of the possibilities are endless but definately variety is the key, sure play with weather and firmness settings and green speeds as every thing helps to keep the experience fresh, I multi-pin all my courses, not so much for Tour play in mind but more so because I will have a variety of layouts to play my own designs and having holes play differently keeps me entertained longer, because after all the man hours that go into a design you should be able to enjoy for quite some time with multi setups
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Post by rod81simo on Apr 22, 2016 21:14:07 GMT -5
Also I should note that my setups whilst may be challenging from the onset are really scoreable, unless a certain setup is requested then il always leave it possible to leave your ball short of the hole, this could mean pitching your approach short of the green in some instances but I'll never tuck a pin on a regular setup that has no way of being accessible. I'm very open to the idea on tour setups tho as IRL some pins just aren't feasible to leave it short on and therefore course management should take over and a decision made as to the best approach to keep momentum in a round and should be kept for your setups and not your everyday setups in my view
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Post by scarpacci on Apr 22, 2016 22:22:03 GMT -5
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