reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Apr 13, 2016 13:59:24 GMT -5
I'll have to play with the fairway settings. One thing that hurts though is that you can't use the fairway as much for rollout or tiers... hard to find that balance. Also you take off like 20 yards a hole probably too don't you? *shrug* Hence my questions.
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Post by boomboom on Apr 13, 2016 15:15:26 GMT -5
I'll have to play with the fairway settings. One thing that hurts though is that you can't use the fairway as much for rollout or tiers... hard to find that balance. Also you take off like 20 yards a hole probably too don't you? *shrug* Hence my questions. The fringe takes on the setting of the fairway for firmness. Hitting the fringe on a firm fairway and even if the green is soft, the ball will take a rocket bounce worse then hitting the fairway itself. I don't think there is an answer TBH. I think people are beginning to believe people are making every chip, they are not, especially from 10 yards out the odds start to drop dramatically. But what is made with a high frequency is the under 10 yard shot. Any pin near the edge of a green, aiming for the miss green is an option. Now, personally if I still have a chance at the green I will go for that, but many won't. Its come down to essentially, we have had so much practice lately with these short shots, because of trends, they are being made more than before. If anything, we need the pins to be away from the green edge, and the miss green need be an uneven lie of greater than 12 yards preferably in heavy rough. That will keep people aiming for the green and the 20 foot putt. Fairway runoffs to the thick stuff can achieve this well. However in any event, don't wreck your course to try and stop the low shooters, just let them go low, the game is what is pooched. People have had so much time with the short game mechanics they have it dialed into a fine art now, HBS should of fixed it 2 years ago, but they chose not to.
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Post by unclefester75 on Apr 13, 2016 15:20:43 GMT -5
I think a good combination of different scenarios works well. I like when it is mixed up for a single round and not a tournament. For example, I don't like when one particular round in a tournament has all of the pins tucked away.
I also don't mind having to run up onto a green to keep the ball from rolling off. However, I think that the pins should be able to be accessed via a slope or something if it is tucked away in some front corner and you have to play a long iron on your approach.
The thing that I dislike the most is when there are no straight putts at all around the hole. Like if you put your pin shot within 6 feet or so and there is a severe break. I think having tough pin placements is OK but a reward should be offered if you get it close.
Another thing that bugs me is pins that are so close to the edge of the green that it allows players who miss the green close to use a chip with better accuracy than a putt. I think that maybe having a run-off on those edges would make the ball roll too far away for a high-percentage chip.
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Post by nevadaballin on Apr 13, 2016 15:54:30 GMT -5
Other:
There is more than one way to have a green setup that challenges but plays well. You can tuck a pin, you can have undulations, etc. The lack of more controlled firmness settings is the biggest problem. Playing into that problem is having designers place a max firm on greens that weren't designed for that setting just for the sake of a tour event. I'd much rather see better pin placement in those cases instead sinply having the "max firmness for greens always equals a tougher challenge" mentality. It's become a bit frustrating to have to deal with max firmed greens every week, really taking the fun out of the game at times and ruining what would normally be an enjoyable course experience.
Varying the settings from day to day would be wonderful.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Apr 13, 2016 15:57:49 GMT -5
actually for a tournament I'm using multiple tees and such so yeah, if a par 3 is 220 yards long the pin won't be tucked but if I shorten it I'll tuck it.
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Post by csugolfer60 on Apr 13, 2016 17:33:35 GMT -5
Haven't read many previous replies so if I am saying someone else's point again, I apologize.
I enjoy all types of greens - easy, medium, hard. Firm, soft. Large, small, conventional, simple and strange. I also think there is no right or wrong way to design a green.
When it comes to competing on a course, I believe all of the above types can work, but I also believe there should be strategy, in addition to execution, in order for a player to play well on a course. The strategy could be about where to land the ball, how to bounce the ball up to the green, how to spin it backwards the correct amount, how to use the slopes that are away from the hole to get the ball nearer to the hole.
I think if I go through an 18 hole course, and never once aim away from the pin for 1.) fear of hazards, or 2.) a strategic way to get the ball close, the design of the golf course might be too simple for competitive play. In my opinion, the 18 pins per round should be a puzzle to be put together, by trying to judge wind, elevation, slope, firmness, speed of greens, and all other factors. I like it when I have to play the ball AWAY from the hole to get it NEAR to the hole, and I particularly enjoy the feeling of executing a well-planned shot that might not be the obvious route.
I also like the challenge of judging putts of all length, and get somewhat bored when every putt is easily make-able and laggable, and there is no penalty for 1.) not controlling speed) and 2.) not being on the correct side of the hole, putting uphill.
I also like every pin to be tucked, not because of the difficulty, but because it leads to more strategy required to get the ball close to the hole. There should usually be a way to get the ball relatively close to the hole, but it should ALWAYS require thought and planning from the player, and punish a player who doesn't plan properly.
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Post by edi_vedder on Apr 13, 2016 18:45:35 GMT -5
Two things really bother me on approach shots. One is having to land the ball short of the green to have any chance of actually keeping the ball on the green or even within 50ft. As long as there is an area to aim for where you can land the ball on the green surface and actually keep it on the green, even if it means 20ft away, I'm cool with it. The other is soft/medium greens with super firm fairways/rough. Landing a shot 1 inch short of the green and having it rocket off 20y when if the ball would have landed just 1 inch closer on the green it would have stopped within a few feet grinds my gears to no end. +1 Those two things make me almost rage quit occasionally. Apart from that, I'm still loving courses/greens the most that have severe slopes, but if you land it on the right spot, it can go (very) close to the hole. Like that Sunday pin on #16 at Augusta. If you play it 10ft short and right of the pin, it might run directly at the flag... and eventually go in (as we've seen a few times this year). And if you don't land it there, you end up in the middle of nowhere.
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Post by mcbogga on Apr 13, 2016 19:08:43 GMT -5
I think hittin a shot with 10-20ft shud always be possible if executed perfectly. As long as the answer isnt bouncing out if the rough. If the course is firm then allowin for shot to be bounced in 20y short to get close shud be possible to leave a decent chance of birdie. My fav type of difficult set up is Firm & Fast with big greens that slope allowing for the slopes to be used to get reasonably close. If theres 1 or 2 holes thats really really tough to leave a 10-20ft put thats fine imo...but havin tat on most holes is way too much. Its up to you, its wat u want Edit: Having run off areas around the green is a great option to prevent ppl playin for chips n flops from 6-15 yards. Damn Smurf - was just about to write a very similar post. What is going on here?
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Post by unclefester75 on Apr 13, 2016 19:27:39 GMT -5
actually for a tournament I'm using multiple tees and such so yeah, if a par 3 is 220 yards long the pin won't be tucked but if I shorten it I'll tuck it. I tuck!
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