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Post by coggin66 on Jan 22, 2016 19:52:25 GMT -5
Something has been annoying me. Why should players get straight into PGA/Euro/Web straight from just 6 rounds at Q-school?
I have recently made it to CC-A and see lots of great players around me trying to get into Web. Yet someone who focusses on Q-school can get in after just 6 good rounds without any real form of competition (and they can never be demoted).
My suggestions are:
1. The top level a Q-school gets you is CC-A. If you want to go higher you have to earn promotion against those that have been trying each week to get there. If they are as good as their Q-school result suggests then they will get promoted very quickly.
2. Automatic demotions from P/E/W. This ensures that if someone gets promoted that isn't good enough then they go back to a level that suits their form. I think this should mirror the CC system but with the following differences: - Making a cut clears strikes - Not putting a score in earns a strike - No strikes if your new WGR is less than say 150 for PGA & Euro and say 300 for Web
3. More generous promotions. With 1 & 2 in place there is more scope for more exemptions.
I would be interested to know if others feel the same or if it is just me becoming a grumpy old man!
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Post by coggin66 on Jan 25, 2016 4:13:31 GMT -5
Deliberate bump to get more votes. Interesting results so far but needs a bigger response rate.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 10:34:09 GMT -5
In real life you can not go straight into PGA. Its q-school and then it's Web. That should be the limit I reckon.
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Post by dh-nufc on Jan 26, 2016 13:12:37 GMT -5
Don't limit. good players go into CC-a and Web and walk them. It's hard enough already.
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Post by t2theb2 on Jan 26, 2016 13:48:39 GMT -5
Stop letting things wind you up. Those rules have been here from the start, y do we have to keep changing everything just to keep the odd person happy. The tgc guys cannot win. There was the odd post in the past of people complaining that some players should be on higher tours. Dont take this wrong mate as i am not trying to give you a hard time just simply think rules are rules and whatever they are we should accept them and get on with playing. Best way really.
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Post by coggin66 on Jan 26, 2016 21:31:25 GMT -5
Stop letting things wind you up. Those rules have been here from the start, y do we have to keep changing everything just to keep the odd person happy. The tgc guys cannot win. There was the odd post in the past of people complaining that some players should be on higher tours. Dont take this wrong mate as i am not trying to give you a hard time just simply think rules are rules and whatever they are we should accept them and get on with playing. Best way really. No offence taken but a few things I'd like to respond / elaborate on: 1. I agree that the TGC guys do a fantastic job with this site. However they have modified things significantly overtime so the rules can be changed if needed (just look at the latest changes to WCR and CC exemptions / demotions (which answers my 3rd request in the OP)). 2. If I am the "odd person" (my wife would say yes to that regardless!) then I am happy to not push this any further. But that is why I added a poll to canvass other opinions. Isn't that one of the reasons for the forum? The TGC guys will dismiss views if they have no merit or are too hard to implement. At the moment a majority (of a relatively small sample) would prefer something different to the status quo. 3. My personal view is that the top tiers should contain the best players based on the "heat of battle" relative to other players not just meeting some absolute score of Q-school (which changes in difficulty from month to month depending on the wind conditions). I should note that this is not to benefit myself. I have enjoyed the rise from CCD to CCA that I have earned and I am happy to compete with good newcomers in CCA for the right to try on Web. 4. I understand the need to sort people into the main tours originally but now that we are established I agree with Oswinners earlier post i.e. in real life it is highly unlikely that a player goes straight onto a PGA or Euro (or even Web) tour without having competed somewhere first (other than Q school). 5. I wouldn't say this winds me up. It is more about feeling that it is unfair or imbalanced. If someone entering Q-school is borderline Web / CCA (definitely not me!) and they want to reach Web then my advice would be to keep practising Q-school until you are good enough. If your Q-school is looking like not making Web (or higher) then don't finish it and do next month's instead. Why? Because once you are in Web you don't get knocked out. If you are in CCA you firstly have to either (now) win or get an exemption and then not miss the cut. There were examples in last week's Web tournament. A new Web player missed the cut with -2 but stays in Web whereas two CCA players on exemption shot -13 but go back to CCA. Similarly another only-ever-Web player has missed 8 out of 8 cuts this season so far. In CCA you would be a goner with that. I guess my concerns would ultimately be resolved by auto demotions from all tours (but Tim has another thread for that). Apologies for the long post!
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lehmanwins
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 85
TGCT Name: MJ Pineault
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Post by lehmanwins on Jan 27, 2016 13:37:21 GMT -5
In all honesty I probably wouldn't have played past Q-School if I didn't qualify for the PGA Tour right away. I don't mean for it to sound pretentious but that's how I felt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 13:41:59 GMT -5
You would end up getting a bottleneck of players that belong on pga/euro taking exemptions/promotions away from the "rank and file" regular cc-a or web players if it were capped. Especially if you went as low as cc-a.
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Post by fuzion on Jan 27, 2016 14:13:38 GMT -5
If you're good enough to be on the PGA, then you should be able to get that card through Q-School. Otherwise you will take a spot in the lower tournaments where you clearly don't belong. We monitor how many pro cards have been given out from Q-School, it's not that easy to get one!
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Post by coggin66 on Jan 27, 2016 16:33:26 GMT -5
You would end up getting a bottleneck of players that belong on pga/euro taking exemptions/promotions away from the "rank and file" regular cc-a or web players if it were capped. Especially if you went as low as cc-a. Not if you use suggestion 3 i.e. increase the exemption flow to ensure the top tiers are full (which I agree with as a key objective).
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Post by coggin66 on Jan 27, 2016 19:01:48 GMT -5
If you're good enough to be on the PGA, then you should be able to get that card through Q-School. Otherwise you will take a spot in the lower tournaments where you clearly don't belong. We monitor how many pro cards have been given out from Q-School, it's not that easy to get one! Hi Fuzion. I acknowledge that it is still not easy to get a Pro/Euro/Web card via Q-school and my main issue is really around the Web/CCA boundary and whether Q-school is a good enough tool to determine this given the difference in the way the rules apply to any subsequent poor performance in each of these tiers. How many new players go straight from Q-school into the top 3 tours each month and what proportion of those struggle and probably shouldn't be there compared to the talent that has developed in CCA & CCB? The cream will rise either way. I know we like to match the real life process but IRL a player would succeed in an amateur or college circuit equivalent to CC before doing Q-school to gain their tour card. I consider my suggestion is a better approximation to RL than the status quo.
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Post by Doyley on Jan 27, 2016 19:43:23 GMT -5
Putting PGA/Euro quality players in CC-A upsets those members. I can't see us doing that - if people shoot low enough to get a PGA/Euro card via Q-School they will easily move up to PGA/Euro in a couple of weeks. People in CC-A and Web would get tired off new players always dropping in their tour and winning then moving on after a week.
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Post by unclefester75 on Jan 27, 2016 22:54:47 GMT -5
I missed WEB by 2 strokes last year in Q school. Had a few quick mistakes where I got demoted from CCA to CCB. I scrapped like hell to work my way up through CCB to the WEB. I feel your pain.
However, I think with the recent possibility of a few Q school events each year for tour members (moving month), it will help with talent leveling.
It would be interesting to see some sort of graphic pertaining to the performance of new members in their tier that they were placed in.
Since I feel like I joined into this game late, I do feel that those who have been around a while have a slight advantage in terms of their original placement. Again, the new rules that will be implemented soon will address this (demotion strikes).
I think the folks running this site are doing a fine job of addressing these issues but not everyone will agree or like it.
The only way to fully fix this would be to start everyone off at zero at the end of each year.
The other thing that I don't understand is how to get my title changed (caddy-weekend golfer-pro)? Anyone know the criteria for this (I joke)?
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Post by coggin66 on Jan 27, 2016 23:56:40 GMT -5
The other thing that I don't understand is how to get my title changed (caddy-weekend golfer-pro)? Anyone know the criteria for this (I joke)? You have to put lots of effort in and post on the forum regularly to move up the ranks except if you do really well in "forum Q-school" then you can jump straight to pro! ;-)
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