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Post by SweetTeeBag on Jan 17, 2016 15:08:25 GMT -5
That was kinda the point of my post. The game has become less enjoyable and taking a break from competition isn't always a bad thing. I was one of the folks that first learned of ball squirt. HB denied it. I proved them wrong and they eventually admitted it. We have learned to deal with it. I learned there was an issue with putting before last patch. They denied it, but then they patched it. The point of my post with what I have observed is the hopes others will recognize similar issues. When multiple people do and speak up, HB investigates. They may not always fix it but they usually explain what is going on or will do research on it. One person bringing things up, no investigation. Multiple people, then it is a different story. Either way something funky is and has been going on and many have experienced this as they did squirt. Well whatever it is I got 4 straight Top 25's with 3 of those being Top 10's on the PGA. I love the squirts!
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jan 17, 2016 16:06:34 GMT -5
I think im contractually obliged to comment when a ball squirt thread occurs so here it goes.
Ball squirt is a terrible idea...the game shud hav a harder swing setting or shudda been harder in general.....straight shooters will always cheat.....its a skill based video game so theres no need for this kinda random BS.....
That shud cover me.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 17, 2016 17:20:38 GMT -5
I am not exaggerating. I was playing a practice round for the ToC with Brad Garcia. At the end of 9, he led -5 to -2. To be fair the two birdies I made, one did not go in on his screen, but 6 of the other 7 holes, the ball went in on his screen but lipped out on mine. We even made a joke about it when the hole didn't go in on his screen.
The point of this was it is very frustrating to hit a good putt and have it lip out on your screen but drop on your opponents. It makes you wonder did in fact you did make that putt? I have the more powerful machine, so the difference in GPU and FPS does that mean I have more chances to miss it? If I had a less powerful computer would it drop? Who knows?
Bottom line this will be the 4th break i've taken to readjust to changes in the game. It happens. I'm not looking for sympathy. What i'm looking for is HB to actually look into what are errors and bugs within its game. One can hope they do.
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Post by boomboom on Jan 17, 2016 18:34:43 GMT -5
And therein lies the problem I have known about since stepping foot on to the tours and watching and studying not only my own game, but the twitch feeds of hundreds of others.
The game on PC is pooched, no 2 PC's plays the same. If I recall right, you played pretty good, then went and built a new PC and essentially have been trying ever since to regain some past form. I absolutely believe they went in on his screen and missed on yours, had you been playing on his PC they would of also gone in. I'm certainly no computer smarty, but for whatever reason your graphics card plays more of a roll then just making a pretty lag free picture in this game. It determines everything else about your game play as well. It determines your line of putt you need to take, how much wind you need to account for as well.
But, HBS is not about to change or fix squat, it's best to learn your own game as it's played on your platform and do the best you can, because you are going to be living with this for a long time to come, or if it really bugs you switch to a console, preferably PS4, and learn the game all over again.
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Post by hershalcrustofsk on Jan 17, 2016 19:14:06 GMT -5
I think it's time for a permanent break, I'm not tying to be offensive but this is one of many rants of yours and it just seems like you take this way too seriously and aren't able to enjoy the game for what it is, a great golf video game. It'd be a shame to see one of the better players out there shut it down, but based on your posts I have a hard time seeing why you play the game.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 17, 2016 20:07:10 GMT -5
And therein lies the problem I have known about since stepping foot on to the tours and watching and studying not only my own game, but the twitch feeds of hundreds of others. The game on PC is pooched, no 2 PC's plays the same. If I recall right, you played pretty good, then went and built a new PC and essentially have been trying ever since to regain some past form. I absolutely believe they went in on his screen and missed on yours, had you been playing on his PC they would of also gone in. I'm certainly no computer smarty, but for whatever reason your graphics card plays more of a roll then just making a pretty lag free picture in this game. It determines everything else about your game play as well. It determines your line of putt you need to take, how much wind you need to account for as well. But, HBS is not about to change or fix squat, it's best to learn your own game as it's played on your platform and do the best you can, because you are going to be living with this for a long time to come, or if it really bugs you switch to a console, preferably PS4, and learn the game all over again. I think you are right up to a point. As it was explained to me if computer A has 10 ways the ball can go in and 30 it can't, then a more powerful computer might have 20 ways it can go in an 60 it misses. They claim the ratio should stay the same but in all honesty they haven't done any true research on it. For me this game is about adapting as well as hoping to make the game better. I took a lot of heat about ball squirt and it turns out I was right. He thought it was ONLY in the game for those using axis cheats, but working with him we showed it was in for everything, which surprised him. He would love to have squirt gone but I don't think that will happen. I showed him where there were graphical errors with the updates they made to the hole and some other graphical tweaks that did effect putting. I was right again as the changes they made in September had unintended consequences in the game. They fixed it but apparently that caused more issues and they had to revert back. Whether it be changing the swing, to tinkering with putting, I will complain when things change, but this game I have found is about adaptation. The elite can adapt far quicker than myself. The last break i had was under a week when they tweaked the putting again. I took a week off competition and worked to get the putting back, having to change the stroke completely. Luckily I was able to adapt far quicker than the month I took off before. I understand they are constantly trying make the game better and that is one of the reasons I make posts like these. One to make sure it isn't just me and two to raise awareness. If you interpret the posts as whining or "i'm going to quit" they are not meant for that. As an example I'm rarely using the bubbles alone for putting as I find they are often horribly misleading. Last time I tweaked putting i was playing more hole speed and more break. I just tried Chamber's Bay and played more speed and less break with some good success. Will that be how I play next time? No clue, gotta keep grinding to find out what works and what doesn't. It just sux that I have to constantly be working on this type of stuff. Btw the latest thought from Anthony is that with the new monitor that took my FPS from 130 down to 80-90 that might be having an effect. Not sure why it would but that is the latest theory. Still if i can come up with a fix quickly i'll play in the next tourney, if not I won't. Simple. If i took this game too seriously I would have quit long ago with all the changes they have made.
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Post by Anthony Kyne on Jan 18, 2016 10:30:23 GMT -5
A while back I was told by Anthony from HB that the reason that a putt might go in on my screen but not on the screen of a friend that I was playing, was that there are minor differences between graphic cards. I accepted this without question, but then I would see a ball miss on my own screen, while I was playing alone and yet on replay it went in (and vice verse). So this explanation didn't make sense anymore because it was the same computer on both the actual shot and the replay. This time I was told that when each shot is made, only a certain part of the shot is placed into memory, so there might be slight differences. HB supposedly fixed this but then there was an issue with saved shots that the shot would not save the wind at the time of the shot and the replayed shot was using the current GLOBAL wind. This too apparently was fixed. None of it got fixed. As an example in tourney play, I made a hole in one. I went back to watch the replay and it missed. Again, it missed but slightly different. Again and it missed again but this time by about 20 feet. I replayed it 10 times. Two times it went into the hole, each time a little differently. The other times all the shots were different, sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot. I decided to have a friend of mine test a new theory. We turned on angle snapping and tried to play each tee shot ( and some putts ) the same exact way. Since angle snapping was on, we were hitting the ball 100% straight. The differences in our shots sometimes was amazing. On the par 3s we made zero adjustments and our shots were identical and yet the result often time was 20-30 feet different from each other. We tested this on putting, getting our balls within an inch or two putting on the same line. We would make no adjustments and putt. On one particular 8 foot putt that broke from left to right, my ball went right of the hole by 3/4 of a grid. His ball went dead center of the cup as the ball never broke. There were several more instances where things just made no sense. Before last patch I talked with Anthony about putting which seemed very off. Balls running over the center of the cup as if the cup didn't exist. Balls hitting the edge of the hole and reacting in weird if not impossible ways. When asked about it, Anthony said no changes were made to putting so nothing had changed and yet in the next patch, putting was suddenly 'patched', no explanation as to why. Since then, people like Brad Garcia has told me that he is missing more 5-8 foot putts but making more 20-25 foot putts. I have seen similar results. Anthony says there is no randomness in putts but hasn't said their isn't in other shots. While not intended I really think there is randomness in every shot, as it is the only explanation to things I have seen. We know there are errors in the game, a ball that goes in during tournament play for birdie and suddenly i'm 2 feet away putting for par (twice). I haven't even gotten to match, duo play and 4 Best ball play where over 1/2 of the holes have differing results on all the screens, which for me makes the game less fun to play. Worse part is I played two weeks ago with a friend. At the end of 9 holes i was -2 with 7 putts lipping out. My friend showed 8 of 9 of those going in. So i'm hoping people can understand the frustration. Of course I could be just whining and somewhere in the time since last patch I have gotten a lot worse. I suppose that is possible but I don't think so. I checked the stats. I was 28 % on Long putts and am now 31%. I was 85% on medium putts and am 81%. Short putts I actually hit 98% (which is so hard to do ) earlier this week and got it back to 99%. Bottom line something has changed and I guess I'm just unable to adapt. If this was just me, i'd say i'm whining, but I have talked with many people who all have felt that putting / the game has changed in a way that they cannot explain. Just about all feel putting has changed in a way for the worse. Take it as you will Ok, I thought I'd address a few of these points as people are getting a little carried away here and jumping to conclusions that have no basis in reality. First off - not seeing the exact shot on different machines and in replays The game does not record the shots, that would be a huge amount of data to swap up and down to the cloud. What we do is store the Club Head Speed, Club Head Straightness, Wind Speed and Direction, etc. When you view a shot in a replay, or another players shot the game 1) generates the course on your machine 2) places the ball at it's starting coordinates on the course 3) applies the data mentioned above to the ball This then means that the ball flies off in the same direction and should do everything it did before. Unfortunately, we've found that graphics cards when generating the course sometimes round floating point numbers slightly differently. Not normally an issue in a Call of Duty or Just Cause, but when relying on small undulations means there as slight differences. These are most noticeable on different GFX Cards but the rounding even on the same card can be different. 5.05 can sometime be 5.00 or 5.10, so this causes slight differences in the shot outcome. This is the reason you'll sometimes see different outcomes and maybe why you and your friend were seeing your ball break in different places on the green. We did have a bug with the Wind as well where the wind being stored for tournament replay was actually the course wind at the time not the tournament wind. Which is fixed, i believe as we've tested here and it's working as it should now. Secondly - I've gone back through the code this morning and I can again state that nothing has changed in putting for months and months and there is definitely NO RANDOM added to any putt. It would make the game unplayable if that was the case. If the mechanic had changed I would expect to see a big difference in your stats, but they're pretty close. All I can see, that could be different is maybe the courses you're playing are affecting the smoothness of the shot or maybe a controller issue. Have you tried another one. I know that I play completely differently on what would seem to be 2 identical controllers, because of the use they get here in the office. Could that be the issue?
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Post by Anthony Kyne on Jan 18, 2016 10:37:54 GMT -5
Ok so here's my take. Its a video game. Perfection doesn't exist in real life and I don't think it's reasonable to expect it in this game. There are variables and they aren't under your control. The only thing under your control is whether you enjoy the "game". If you don't then stop...and that should be applied to everything in life. I'd say this too...if you apply yourself to your work like you do to figuring out why a replay didn't replicate the actual shot, even though it didn't change the outcome...well then let me know what you do for a living because if your business applies to mine I want to work with you. I know any errors will be due to cosmic forces, not because of some ID-10-T! My recommendation...relax and enjoy it for what it is...a nice break from reality and as good a golf sim as there is right now. Stick around pal and just enjoy not being in some terrible life sutuation. Stop calling this game a sim. It's nowhere near sim Sim doesn't mean hard, it means that it simulates the world of golf. I believe we've made a game that simulates the joy, frustrations and general enjoyment I get out on the course. It simulates the deftness of touch needed in the short game and although a little easy for some off the tee, it does simulate the thought process needed before you take your drive. The fact that TGC is now classed as the best simulation software, but majority of the golf simulator makers like Pro Tee United surely only confirms that
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Post by Anthony Kyne on Jan 18, 2016 10:41:33 GMT -5
I am not exaggerating. I was playing a practice round for the ToC with Brad Garcia. At the end of 9, he led -5 to -2. To be fair the two birdies I made, one did not go in on his screen, but 6 of the other 7 holes, the ball went in on his screen but lipped out on mine. We even made a joke about it when the hole didn't go in on his screen. The point of this was it is very frustrating to hit a good putt and have it lip out on your screen but drop on your opponents. It makes you wonder did in fact you did make that putt? I have the more powerful machine, so the difference in GPU and FPS does that mean I have more chances to miss it? If I had a less powerful computer would it drop? Who knows? Bottom line this will be the 4th break i've taken to readjust to changes in the game. It happens. I'm not looking for sympathy. What i'm looking for is HB to actually look into what are errors and bugs within its game. One can hope they do. What happens on your screen, if you took the shot, is what happened. His GFX card rounded the slight undulations differently meaning that the ball moved ever so slightly differently on his computer. That's all
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Post by Anthony Kyne on Jan 18, 2016 10:43:40 GMT -5
But, HBS is not about to change or fix squat How much squirt have you noticed recently ;-)
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Post by champ39 on Jan 18, 2016 10:48:54 GMT -5
But, HBS is not about to change or fix squat How much squirt have you noticed recently ;-) The ball rarely goes where I think it should. Is that ball squirt or bad play on my account? Haha
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jan 18, 2016 10:51:03 GMT -5
But, HBS is not about to change or fix squat How much squirt have you noticed recently ;-) Tell us more Anthony!!....lol
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Post by marino313131 on Jan 18, 2016 11:00:52 GMT -5
I think it's time for a permanent break, I'm not tying to be offensive but this is one of many rants of yours and it just seems like you take this way too seriously and aren't able to enjoy the game for what it is, a great golf video game. It'd be a shame to see one of the better players out there shut it down, but based on your posts I have a hard time seeing why you play the game. For the record I don't believe that putting has any major issues. I do however think that anytime someone uses this forum to address a perceived or real problem some people come out and shame the thread creator. Some folks just want to cultivate bromances on here and tell each other how wonderful they are, but some of us know this is the only way that changes actually happen.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jan 18, 2016 11:04:13 GMT -5
Only thing wrong wit puttin is the physics are off sometimes....the ball will pop over the hole or bounce left after catchin the left edge....that needs addressin imo.
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Post by mcbogga on Jan 18, 2016 11:16:58 GMT -5
Certainly hope that something better is coming to produce some variance if the squirt is gone. Or is there a "press X to swing" mechanic coming in the next update? Followed by "press X to hole out"?
Golf is a game of incomplete information and variance. It's at the core of the game. Putts lip out for no reason other than the universe conspiring against you and perfect tee balls find divots at the worst time. It's what makes the game beautiful. Clinically removing variance does not make for a golf sim. And around the greens - when there is a flop shot mechanic that is a get out of jail free card from even the most stupid deep rough short sided approach and just needing to be within 8feet to have virtually a gimme - deft touch and approach planing is hardly required... It does get better with the grid off.
I wish I had the space to get a simulator set-up as this IS for sure the greatest simulator software ever with the best course creator and design community ever seen. Having to hit a shot negates the weakest part of the game which is the one dimensional simplistic swing and short game model.
It is really close though. Just find a way to implement a push and pull mechanic, make the shot-shaper realistic and nerf the flop shot and you have pretty much a really good golf sim... Maybe we can find a balance where true to life replicas like this week's PGA course can actually see something that resembles golf scores?
Lately I just see HB taking small steps in the opposite direction which is a bit frustrating since the game really is so close to being a good sim.
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