A message from the Denali Club designer...
Dec 11, 2015 11:03:18 GMT -5
roblandon, ziba, and 5 more like this
Post by mrooola on Dec 11, 2015 11:03:18 GMT -5
First off. This is a completely unnecessary post really. Do yourself a favor and don't read it. This is a rant, about the ridiculousness of calling this a bad course for the CC-Tour. Or any other course for that matter.
I think MOST people already thinks this is a fine challenging course.
Still here? Ok whatever...
If you putt yourself off the green, you probably need some practicing on putting and/or reading greens and execution for your approach. And practicing flat greens won't really help you. If you chip from one side to the other same applies. I do that from time to time, but that is because I'm horrible at chipping. If you attack every pin and you notice that it isn't working you probably need to stop attacking the pins and find a different approach. Current leaders is at -29, -28, -24, -28, -17 and -14 in respective flight (Lower scores than we saw in Cracked Open I might add).That would suggest that there are ways to score very low on this course, does it not? If you don't think -29 after 3 rounds is a very low score, please... again... for gods sake stop reading right here and never speak openly about anything regarding course difficulty and unfairness ever again.
Now... If you are still here.
Andre:
This is an excellent course. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it (except the infamous soul patch on #7 hehe ). Its a perfect Q-School course. I understand why you went out and "defended" your course, but it shouldn't be needed. Its a challenge for sure. Its the toughest course on the CC tour this year in my opinion although scores suggest otherwise. Too tough and unfair? Hell no. There isn't even a PIN I would consider unfair. Original position of #9 was the toughest I can remember and I would not call that unfair at all.
At the moment when I type.
After 3 rounds
75% of the field who has teed off is below par.
50% of those above par has had a at least 1 round with a score of par or better.
Of the 375 players who have teed off when writing this, only 48 have failed to break par. So 13% of the field has failed to break par on this course. That's 87% who has scored below par on the course at least once...
0% is -30 or better
9% is -20 or better
39% is -10 or better
These numbers tell me it's a slightly tougher course than what we are accustomed to. It is however not unfair in any shape or form. Its all about a mindset that some people have. As if you need to be able to birdie every hole regardless of wind and ones own playing ability. The number of players who seem to think that a well performed tee shot and/or approach should automatically be a tap in birdie or what might actually only be a decent to poor performance should be a tough birdie opportunity, but makeable. It's beyond laughable. As if only really bad play or bigger mistakes should result in par or worse. I really don't get this. TGCTours is in my mind primarily a competition. You don't play the course. You play the competition. Yes, its suppose to be fun, but why is it that birdie factor is so incredibly important? Play the competition and if a hole is tough, maybe you should walk away with your par and pair it with a smile instead of a closed fist.
A fun fact, that probably don't mean anything, using players who has completed 3 rounds. This has more variables than I present, but its just for fun.
In CC-A The leader is 34 shots ahead of last place.
Last week the difference was 32 shots.
CC-B 31 vs. 32
CC-C 40 vs. 41
CC-D 54 vs. 41
CC-E 41 vs. 60
CC-Z 68 vs. 24
CC-Z do have a huge difference this week compared to last week, but also a very small field.
In CC-D the gap is larger this week and in CC-E its much less. All in all the difference between the best and worst players in each flight is pretty much the same. Especially in the higher flights. So if the difference is the same.... Scores in the top is low... why are so many complaining? I have a total of 0 courses in any tour event to my name. Yet I feel slightly offended myself as a designer. The tour desperately need tougher courses, and people ask for them, yet whenever we get presented by one the bandwagon of vomit towards them rolls into town.
I would hate to see these types of discussions spiral in the upcoming weeks. In the Cracked Open the designer had to change the settings and republish 4 courses just before the tournament started. The 4th day was the only difference. That course was up to that point and time the toughest course on the CC this season. The winning score was -35 in CC-A. Would having 1 round with tougher conditions really had made such a huge difference? Would a winning score of -30 be considered horrible and cause an outrage? I guess so... Web.com has a nice course to play this week. Its beautiful and pretty fun to play too. Its on the easy side, but what the hell. Fun with birdies right? What happens when 150 pretty decent players play an easy course? The cut gets to -20. Could have been a lot worse. That to me is much more unfair in my book that a slightly above average slope on a green. Imagine scoring -19 in might I add, not calm conditions and still don't make the cut? -18 in the PGA. Web had 7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! players tied for first place after two rounds. 7!! Playing Little Brook Manor is not a good thing for the CC.
Also. Apart from the designers having to read and hear about all the crap some people say I also do feel for the course selectors. Tough crowd to please here...
Rant over...
I think MOST people already thinks this is a fine challenging course.
Still here? Ok whatever...
If you putt yourself off the green, you probably need some practicing on putting and/or reading greens and execution for your approach. And practicing flat greens won't really help you. If you chip from one side to the other same applies. I do that from time to time, but that is because I'm horrible at chipping. If you attack every pin and you notice that it isn't working you probably need to stop attacking the pins and find a different approach. Current leaders is at -29, -28, -24, -28, -17 and -14 in respective flight (Lower scores than we saw in Cracked Open I might add).That would suggest that there are ways to score very low on this course, does it not? If you don't think -29 after 3 rounds is a very low score, please... again... for gods sake stop reading right here and never speak openly about anything regarding course difficulty and unfairness ever again.
Now... If you are still here.
Andre:
This is an excellent course. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it (except the infamous soul patch on #7 hehe ). Its a perfect Q-School course. I understand why you went out and "defended" your course, but it shouldn't be needed. Its a challenge for sure. Its the toughest course on the CC tour this year in my opinion although scores suggest otherwise. Too tough and unfair? Hell no. There isn't even a PIN I would consider unfair. Original position of #9 was the toughest I can remember and I would not call that unfair at all.
At the moment when I type.
After 3 rounds
75% of the field who has teed off is below par.
50% of those above par has had a at least 1 round with a score of par or better.
Of the 375 players who have teed off when writing this, only 48 have failed to break par. So 13% of the field has failed to break par on this course. That's 87% who has scored below par on the course at least once...
0% is -30 or better
9% is -20 or better
39% is -10 or better
These numbers tell me it's a slightly tougher course than what we are accustomed to. It is however not unfair in any shape or form. Its all about a mindset that some people have. As if you need to be able to birdie every hole regardless of wind and ones own playing ability. The number of players who seem to think that a well performed tee shot and/or approach should automatically be a tap in birdie or what might actually only be a decent to poor performance should be a tough birdie opportunity, but makeable. It's beyond laughable. As if only really bad play or bigger mistakes should result in par or worse. I really don't get this. TGCTours is in my mind primarily a competition. You don't play the course. You play the competition. Yes, its suppose to be fun, but why is it that birdie factor is so incredibly important? Play the competition and if a hole is tough, maybe you should walk away with your par and pair it with a smile instead of a closed fist.
A fun fact, that probably don't mean anything, using players who has completed 3 rounds. This has more variables than I present, but its just for fun.
In CC-A The leader is 34 shots ahead of last place.
Last week the difference was 32 shots.
CC-B 31 vs. 32
CC-C 40 vs. 41
CC-D 54 vs. 41
CC-E 41 vs. 60
CC-Z 68 vs. 24
CC-Z do have a huge difference this week compared to last week, but also a very small field.
In CC-D the gap is larger this week and in CC-E its much less. All in all the difference between the best and worst players in each flight is pretty much the same. Especially in the higher flights. So if the difference is the same.... Scores in the top is low... why are so many complaining? I have a total of 0 courses in any tour event to my name. Yet I feel slightly offended myself as a designer. The tour desperately need tougher courses, and people ask for them, yet whenever we get presented by one the bandwagon of vomit towards them rolls into town.
I would hate to see these types of discussions spiral in the upcoming weeks. In the Cracked Open the designer had to change the settings and republish 4 courses just before the tournament started. The 4th day was the only difference. That course was up to that point and time the toughest course on the CC this season. The winning score was -35 in CC-A. Would having 1 round with tougher conditions really had made such a huge difference? Would a winning score of -30 be considered horrible and cause an outrage? I guess so... Web.com has a nice course to play this week. Its beautiful and pretty fun to play too. Its on the easy side, but what the hell. Fun with birdies right? What happens when 150 pretty decent players play an easy course? The cut gets to -20. Could have been a lot worse. That to me is much more unfair in my book that a slightly above average slope on a green. Imagine scoring -19 in might I add, not calm conditions and still don't make the cut? -18 in the PGA. Web had 7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! players tied for first place after two rounds. 7!! Playing Little Brook Manor is not a good thing for the CC.
Also. Apart from the designers having to read and hear about all the crap some people say I also do feel for the course selectors. Tough crowd to please here...
Rant over...