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Post by mcbogga on Sept 16, 2015 2:30:06 GMT -5
Just to add, I very much 'do' know how to setup a course. I imagine I'm one of few who has genuine experience in that area. Also I do not accept that this is 'tricked up'. You have options on the tee. Some of them are pretty straightforward if you want your par. There are 'right' sides of fairways, and there are times when a shorter shot would benefit. And, yes, there are some killer pin positions. If you feel agitated that you've managed to overcook a putt and you've rolled off the back of the green then you'll appreciate how it feels for the pros when they do them same thing. I'd be interested to see what the GIR stats are for those that are complaining that the greens aren't holding and compare that to some of The Opens over the years. Yeah, and as another of "the few" - a lot of what you did here does make sense for a championship real life set up and pin setting overall on tour is just far too nice and easy. Limitations to the game mechanics however makes this set up play worse than what it deserves. DrLowdon sums it up. When shortsiding yourself in the heavy rough is a good strategy something is not right. So course set up for TGC needs to follow slightly different rules (but same principles) than real world ones just because the game is flawed. The numbers on the leader-board does look really really good so far however - so you may sway me on this one... Might be that you are right and the course is just at a too high level for me to take in yet... I do like the 12th that gets a lot of critisim. A driveable par four have to be either risk reward or a "trojan horse" kind of set up to be good... Still think it's a bit sad that we cannot get those numbers without this level of set-up. Game should be difficult enough to keep leaders at -5 or -6 after two on this type of course. One question to end. Might have more later as it's always interrestign to hear the thinking from the designer. 17th in round 1 - how to get the ball anywhere near that pin without bouncing it well before the bunkers and threading it between them? Is that a shot that is good from a set up point of view? You can answer after thursday if you dont want to spill the beans to the people yet to tee off.
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Post by Roosroan on Sept 16, 2015 4:07:19 GMT -5
The course is fine biggins. No need to defend yourself, you did a great job. What matters most for me is that I'm not getting all f*cked up when my approach shot lands 15 foot from the flag and I have 'just' a smaller chance for a birdie. There's no use to go for birdie on every hole. You got great -3's and lousy -10's.
I'll take the great -3 any time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 8:14:05 GMT -5
A PGA player playing this for the challenge/fun: In the end, I do apologize for my little hissy fit about #12 and the OB. This course was a treat overall, as it did get you to really think about your options on almost every shot, especially your approaches. While not a favorite, it was certainly not a disliked tournament/course. I just came to respect it for what it is. Tough. Thank you, Mr. Biggins for this fine course. It tested me for certain, and I no doubt think others think the same way. My scores seem like an actual golf tournament scorecard. That's pretty cool, IMO.
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Post by boomboom on Sept 16, 2015 8:30:15 GMT -5
Black Widows a bit of a joke Boomer haha. Some of those pins are in insane places. Each to their own though haha. I played it about 15 times yesterday, trying to better my -2, its a freaken beast. I had it to -4 playing 18, hit just a little short on the green and was unable to putt up the hill, was very annoyed with myself as I hit 5 wood to that green, had I hit 3 wood I certainly would of had the course record locked up.
I think it helps me be a better player, I'm forced into learning shots that I generally do not need, like a 22 yard chip, partial power shots, fast greens, firm settings etc. It also very important to use the scout cam to figure out where to land the ball and map out the best route to the par with the current game physics. i.e leaving that 18 yard pitch or flop to a green sloped towards you is a guaranteed bogie.
Its not bad once you stop playing for birdie and play the course like a chess match and focus on your next move before you make the move in front of you.
I guess some like normal courses with no aids, I like this golf course with full aids. I don't feel blinded here.
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Post by drlowdon on Sept 16, 2015 11:55:06 GMT -5
I think you're probably right McBogga, the issue is as much with the short game mechanics of the game as it is with the course. Its should never be easier to flop the ball from heavy rough than it is to putt and this course emphasises that problem more than any other course I have played on TGC Tours.
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Post by mav78 on Sept 16, 2015 12:36:34 GMT -5
I got no problem with the course just the firmness, which is fine if you want it tough and very unpredctable. As i said, on 10 i hit the inside of the bunker and shot off ob and 12 was a bit ott but from a game point of view it keeps scores down which i am against but understand people want that. However i think it was 16 i went back of green and couldnt reach the pin with a putt. Full hit i was still 40 foot away so this is an oversight. I understand allowing chipping on greens for this reason maybe a debatable problem but a pro certainly would bave chipped. Its a real good course, i dont think even links greens are quite as extreme but it suits the game well. It still would have been real tough with medium greens and a lot more fun which should be the main thing not realistic scoring which isnt realistic anyway. Not enjoyed this week i doubt many did, which it shouldnt be like.
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2015 12:48:37 GMT -5
I certainly hope this rule will be revisited for Season 2 as there have been several courses that have had this isue.
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Post by biggins on Sept 16, 2015 12:52:11 GMT -5
I had designed a couple of the greens a lot larger than they finished up. A few of them are too small for my liking but this was down to the problem of getting long putts where they were needed. The long putt issue was certainly not an oversight. It was a balance that I had to strike to get the course playing right.
The slopes on the greens aren't as severe as some greens that you'll come across in real life, especially on older courses. Honestly, some greens I've played on in Scotland are insane. Do a Google search for the 16th green at North Berwick (I incorrectly called it the 17th earlier in the thread). None of Balwearie's greens are anywhere near as crazy as that.
Mav78, you hit the inside of the bunker on 10 and ending up OOB. Has something like that never happened to you in real life? Because that's just golf as far as I can see. 12 is an easy hole depending on the pin position.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 1:32:11 GMT -5
Mr. Garcia, I bow down to you and the score that I see.
Wow. Just... wow.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 1:35:00 GMT -5
I had designed a couple of the greens a lot larger than they finished up. A few of them are too small for my liking but this was down to the problem of getting long putts where they were needed. The long putt issue was certainly not an oversight. It was a balance that I had to strike to get the course playing right. The slopes on the greens aren't as severe as some greens that you'll come across in real life, especially on older courses. Honestly, some greens I've played on in Scotland are insane. Do a Google search for the 16th green at North Berwick (I incorrectly called it the 17th earlier in the thread). None of Balwearie's greens are anywhere near as crazy as that. Mav78, you hit the inside of the bunker on 10 and ending up OOB. Has something like that never happened to you in real life? Because that's just golf as far as I can see. 12 is an easy hole depending on the pin position.I complained about the OB after I went OB in round two. I ended up with double. R3 I chipped in for eagle, and in round 4 I am fairly sure I birdied it. I have no clue what I did in round one. I again apologize for my rant about the OB on this hole. It was there for everyone to see. Adjusting is the key.
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Post by Roosroan on Sept 17, 2015 3:32:26 GMT -5
I blew up in 3rd round and all I could do was smile. I was tired, took a beer, and played, let's say.. not so good. +8 'till hole 17. You have to be sharp and concentrated or else this course bites you. What is there NOT to like..
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 17, 2015 4:56:19 GMT -5
Brad Garcia. -14 after 36. Bogey free. 75% GIR. No hole outs. Longest putt holed 18feet.
Biggins - I stand corrected.
Bradley - but can you do it without training wheels?
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 17, 2015 8:01:28 GMT -5
Just started the tournament and I'm already seriously depressed just after the first 10 holes. Course is way too tricked up and possibly the worst course we have had to play on the Euro all season. So here ends my Euro season, and that doesn't bother me at all as i don't have to play the rest of this course. When your not enjoying it what's the point?
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Post by blueorfe on Sept 17, 2015 9:48:08 GMT -5
Brad Garcia. -14 after 36. Bogey free. 75% GIR. No hole outs. Longest putt holed 18feet. Biggins - I stand corrected. Bradley - but can you do it without training wheels? I'll give it a try later Robert. I will be amazed if I can shoot level par?
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 17, 2015 9:55:34 GMT -5
Brad Garcia. -14 after 36. Bogey free. 75% GIR. No hole outs. Longest putt holed 18feet. Biggins - I stand corrected. Bradley - but can you do it without training wheels? I'll give it a try later Robert. I will be amazed if I can shoot level par? Just goes to show that controller users can cheat too! Kidding Brad, unbelievable shooting. It was fun following your ball around as I played for funzies.
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