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Post by ritchieboyroy on Feb 20, 2021 17:14:25 GMT -5
NEW RELEASE - The Quarry Ridge, Vermont Hello community. This is my first published course and I hope I can get your feedback! Built on the grounds of an abandoned quarry, this course features steep cliffs and exposed stone. I'm going for a classic NorthEast feel, set in the mountains of Vermont. You'll need to navigate some aggressive elevation changes. Many holes offer short cuts but will the risk match the reward? Hope you enjoy. Some say the old abandoned processing plant overlooking the valley is haunted. Learning to design has been a blast. Not at the level of many of you, but enjoying the process! Note: I did publish 3 versions, so please go for the one that includes "The" in the name.
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Post by ritchieboyroy on Feb 21, 2021 7:55:22 GMT -5
Ok obvi I'm doing something wrong. My course photos aren't embedded like everyone else, just linked.
Advise please?
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Post by ludwigslughole on Feb 21, 2021 8:21:04 GMT -5
Hey ritchie - I'm a new designer and also published my first course yesterday - Kindle Mountain GC, if you're interested in a reciprocal play đ. I think it might depend on whether you're on pc or console. I'm on pc running the game through Steam and that allows you to take photos and then link to them using paste.pics, which provides an embed link that you paste into the upload image option in your post.
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Post by rayzor on Feb 21, 2021 8:55:20 GMT -5
Hey man, for embedding the photos using Imgur here is what I do:
- On Imgur, Go to the photo you want and the click the "..." at the top right of the photo - Click "Get Share Links" - Copy the "BBCode (Forums)" link - When creating your post on TGC, switch your view to BBCode (not 100% sure if this is necessary, but I like doing it) - Insert this link into your post
When you switch back to preview, the image should now be embedded in the post. Hope this helps!
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Post by SteelVike on Feb 21, 2021 10:23:26 GMT -5
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Post by ritchieboyroy on Feb 21, 2021 10:26:16 GMT -5
You are a champion Hey man, for embedding the photos using Imgur here is what I do: - On Imgur, Go to the photo you want and the click the "..." at the top right of the photo - Click "Get Share Links" - Copy the "BBCode (Forums)" link - When creating your post on TGC, switch your view to BBCode (not 100% sure if this is necessary, but I like doing it) - Insert this link into your post When you switch back to preview, the image should now be embedded in the post. Hope this helps!
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Post by ritchieboyroy on Feb 21, 2021 10:27:40 GMT -5
Awesome, thanks so much! Appreciate the help. This community is amazing.
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Post by weirsy2003 on Feb 21, 2021 14:12:29 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I am not a course design expert at all but I have learned a lot from videos by the top designers in the game and think I have a pretty good idea of what makes or breaks a course. I'm still struggling myself to slowly create and publish my first course. The comments made below are meant to be constructive criticism although playing this course was an exercise in frustration as it unfortunately underdelivered on my expectations. Please forgive my rantings and ravings below.
I really wanted to like the course based on the pictures posted (#2 planting around the green looks great!) but I think you hit pretty much every rookie mistake there is on this course. I would highly recommend watching some tutorial videos. Crazycanuck's are the best I've found and have taught me (and I think a lot of the top designers) most of what I know and struggle to achieve myself. I liked the general "bones" of the course but the back 9 devolved into complete silliness in my opinion .The teeny, tiny greens with massive fringes are the worst offenders there (see #13 and 17 in particular). Green and bunker sizes are wildly inconsistent but every so often you do have an excellent bunker. Tree planting was probably 99% auto-generated except for where you clearly added trees to block fairways and greens! This feels forced and gimmicky. There are much better strategies to encourage people to take or not take a certain line without literally blocking it off with trees (see holes 8 and 12). You have a couple split fairways which, for different reasons, offer no incentive to take the right side. On #2 you would have to hit a massive slice to hit the green as you would have no direct line to the green because of the tree line/angle of the fairway. On #10 the right fairway is too narrow, doesn't provide an advantageous angle to the green and if you miss right you're down a cliff. Nobody would choose either of those options which defeats the purpose of a split fairway. Sculpting in general requires more work and smoothing. It's OK to have extreme elevation changes but it needs to look more natural rather than just using a brush to create a very sharp cliff. There actually are some interesting brushes that can be used for more natural looking cliffs but sharp, man-made looking edges generally do not exist in nature. Other sculpting issues include tee boxes not being flat (#1 Black Tee was the worst offender) and unintentional blindness. I think #13 may have been my least favourite hole for most of the above reasons but you actually could have had a spectacular view off the tee had you tinkered with lowering some of the land down the fairway and left side of the hole to see the lake and green. Some of your greens have been overworked in terms of creating breaks and look very unnatural. #15 is an obvious glaring example (I wonder where all 4 pins are ) but there are more subtle examples where you added in breaks to your green pretty randomly. #11 is the worst offender here and looks like you buried many small creatures beneath the green. Rolling a ball across that green looks like a moguls run! In general, I also don't think a double-breaking 5 foot putt is realistic at all but I did see it in some holes where there were just too many extra breaks added to the greens.
I would highly recommend watching this video from one of the absolute best designers in the game as it does a much better job explaining things to avoid on courses than my rant does.
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Post by ritchieboyroy on Feb 21, 2021 17:18:22 GMT -5
Well I asked and I received! I'd say you are right on most points, and certainly thorough. It was my first go and I can already see the rough edges and shortcomings just from my own development. And yes I'm watching videos, but I think us console designers are at a pretty big deficit, so while I'd like to compete at that level, it feels unrealistic. Anyway, I'm deep into my 2nd course so I'll try to learn and make improvements based on all of this. That's why I'm here!
Where I don't quite agree would be the comments on things like fringe size. Who's to say we all have to follow the same aesthetics. Ive played golf my whole life, all over this country and Europe, and seen all kinds of shapes and sizes. I try to match my green size with the approach shot, and in some cases a short flip wedge deserves a challenge with a tight target. 17 is a short driveable par 4, small green but big fringe. So what? Got a hike that looks very similar on my home course. Fringe adds a little forgiveness for the long shots coming in. And the tree on 8 green, yeah ok I see your point - but I play Harbour Town ( the real one) all the time and there are greenside trees on almost every hole to force you to shape your shots. A shot makers course.
Agree some greens a little too slopey. That may be rookie bravado. Regarding the slit fairway, I watch ghost replays and I'd say 75% of players go right on # 2 when wind not hurting, which makes the approach infinitely easier. I stand by that risk reward. And #10 gives you a shorter path to hitting it in 2, but yes unlikely I'd go for it in the real world as it's so penal when you miss. Maybe #12 you missed the intentional opening of trees to allow you to fade and cut off the whole corner on an otherwise very long par 4. See your point on it being too forced.
I think your most on point observation is #13. Sometimes as a designer, especially rookie, you spend so much time working on a hole that you lose perspective. I was really proud of that island green and the way it looks in the lake below. Sort of lost sight of what could have been obvious improvement as you suggested.
While it hurts a bit to hear so much negativity, I half expected it. Wish there was a way to have feedback prior to publishing.
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Feb 21, 2021 18:00:01 GMT -5
Well I asked and I received! I'd say you are right on most points, and certainly thorough. It was my first go and I can already see the rough edges and shortcomings just from my own development. And yes I'm watching videos, but I think us console designers are at a pretty big deficit, so while I'd like to compete at that level, it feels unrealistic. Anyway, I'm deep into my 2nd course so I'll try to learn and make improvements based on all of this. That's why I'm here! Where I don't quite agree would be the comments on things like fringe size. Who's to say we all have to follow the same aesthetics. Ive played golf my whole life, all over this country and Europe, and seen all kinds of shapes and sizes. I try to match my green size with the approach shot, and in some cases a short flip wedge deserves a challenge with a tight target. 17 is a short driveable par 4, small green but big fringe. So what? Got a hike that looks very similar on my home course. Fringe adds a little forgiveness for the long shots coming in. And the tree on 8 green, yeah ok I see your point - but I play Harbour Town ( the real one) all the time and there are greenside trees on almost every hole to force you to shape your shots. A shot makers course. Agree some greens a little too slopey. That may be rookie bravado. Regarding the slit fairway, I watch ghost replays and I'd say 75% of players go right on # 2 when wind not hurting, which makes the approach infinitely easier. I stand by that risk reward. And #10 gives you a shorter path to hitting it in 2, but yes unlikely I'd go for it in the real world as it's so penal when you miss. Maybe #12 you missed the intentional opening of trees to allow you to fade and cut off the whole corner on an otherwise very long par 4. See your point on it being too forced. I think your most on point observation is #13. Sometimes as a designer, especially rookie, you spend so much time working on a hole that you lose perspective. I was really proud of that island green and the way it looks in the lake below. Sort of lost sight of what could have been obvious improvement as you suggested. While it hurts a bit to hear so much negativity, I half expected it. Wish there was a way to have feedback prior to publishing. If youâre interested in feedback pre-publish, start a WIP thread over in the âunder constructionâ sub forum. There, you can post pics and publish betas of your course for other members to critique and offer suggestions. I would highly recommend that you not take weirsyâs feedback as negativity so much but more as good, honest feedback to help you grow as a designer! Honestly, youâre very fortunate, in my opinion, that someone took the time to give you honest, no BS, detailed feedback especially on a first publish. Iâm sure his intentions are purely positive. My own recommendation, without playing the course yet (which I plan tođ), is to pick out one or two things that you feel youâre good at (i.e. planting, sculpting, etc.) and try to make those things the focal point of your next design. In that design, pick one or two things that you feel your weak on and really make an effort to improve on those one or two elements. That way, the things youâre good at will be the highlight of the course while the things youâre working on wonât make or break the quality of the course. The most important thing to remember here is that we all have to start somewhere. The beauty of this community, at least from a designerâs perspective, is that the overwhelming majority of us are here to support one and other in pursuit of a hobby we all enjoy. Everyone benefits when weâre all trying to help each other get better at it! Now, Iâm off to give this course a go. Wish me luck!
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Post by SteelVike on Feb 21, 2021 18:07:20 GMT -5
Wish there was a way to have feedback prior to publishing. A great way to get feedback before publishing is to publish a beta version with a name such as EXv022121. Create a post in the Under Construction thread and ask for feedback. Another good place to ask for feedback is in Facebook groups and discord. There are a lot of people that are willing to take a look and give you constructive feedback. You can put the course back in the designer by going to Published Courses in the designer menu and save it under a new name.
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Post by ritchieboyroy on Feb 21, 2021 18:09:29 GMT -5
If youâre interested in feedback pre-publish, start a WIP thread over in the âunder constructionâ sub forum. There, you can post pics and publish betas of your course for other members to critique and offer suggestions. I would highly recommend that you not take weirsyâs feedback as negativity so much but more as good, honest feedback to help you grow as a designer! Honestly, youâre very fortunate, in my opinion, that someone took the time to give you honest, no BS, detailed feedback especially on a first publish. Iâm sure his intentions are purely positive. My own recommendation, without playing the course yet (which I plan tođ), is to pick out one or two things that you feel youâre good at (i.e. planting, sculpting, etc.) and try to make those things the focal point of your next design. In that design, pick one or two things that you feel your weak on and really make an effort to improve on those one or two elements. That way, the things youâre good at will be the highlight of the course while the things youâre working on wonât make or break the quality of the course. The most important thing to remember here is that we all have to start somewhere. The beauty of this community, at least from a designerâs perspective, is that the overwhelming majority of us are here to support one and other in pursuit of a hobby we all enjoy. Everyone benefits when weâre all trying to help each other get better at it! Now, Iâm off to give this course a go. Wish me luck! Thanks for the suggestion! It's all good.
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Feb 21, 2021 19:27:04 GMT -5
Just got done with my round and I honestly enjoyed the course. You really have a lot of good ideas here theyâre just very raw in terms of sculpting and polish. The polish process can get very tedious at times but itâs really what takes a course to the next level. Iâd echo some of weirsyâs points about fringe width especially on the back nine. Itâs a fun sort of idea but visually itâs quite awkward. Specific examples would be 13 and 14. It could be worth some time to play around with it to see if you can get it to blend better and would be great for creating run off and chipping areas a la Pinehurst. One suggestion Iâd make to you immediately is geared towards hole strategy. I saw that you included (purposely or accidentally, I hope purposely) alternate routes on several of your holes. I personally enjoy alternate routes immensely (although not everyone does)! However, when employing alternate routes, I think youâd benefit from expanding the playable area a lot on the more conservative route. I found myself taking driver on these holes simply because I didnât want to lose the distance if I missed the fairway with 3 or 5 wood. When designing a risk/reward type hole with multiple routes, I think itâs best to make the conservative route tee shot almost a gimme. That way, players are faced with the conflict of giving up almost a certain FIR for a better opportunity to score. As they currently sit, the aggressive route is almost a no brainer because the likelihood of missing the fairway is nearly the same on the lay up route as it is with the aggressive route! All in all though, nice first effort! As I stated in my earlier post, we all have to start somewhere and this is really not a bad one at all. Keep designing and ask lots of questions! Most anyone here will be more then happy to help you reach whatever goals that you may have as a designer!
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Post by ritchieboyroy on Feb 21, 2021 22:03:38 GMT -5
Hallz - this is greatly appreciated. If I were you I think I might have just moved on after reading other comments. Plenty of better courses here, I know this.
Your comments on alternate routes is spot on. My execution fell short on a few because the easy option isn't easy enough. That makes it perfectly clear and I'll take that to heart for course 2.
I'm not looking to compete with the upper level designers here, don't think I can. I'm just hoping to make some courses that are fun for people, and maybe a little different than what I see most others doing. After all, realism is amazing in this game, but it is a game and the ability of players to make birdies in this game is not really realistic, so my feeling is we need to pose some other forms of challenge not just pinching fairway bunkers at the 300 yard mark. I think greens should be tricky, elevation, all that stuff.
Anyway, I don't want to impose further on your generosity - but if I pub a beta can I ping you to give it a look? Genuinely believe you could help me improve.
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Feb 21, 2021 22:46:37 GMT -5
Hallz - this is greatly appreciated. If I were you I think I might have just moved on after reading other comments. Plenty of better courses here, I know this. Your comments on alternate routes is spot on. My execution fell short on a few because the easy option isn't easy enough. That makes it perfectly clear and I'll take that to heart for course 2. I'm not looking to compete with the upper level designers here, don't think I can. I'm just hoping to make some courses that are fun for people, and maybe a little different than what I see most others doing. After all, realism is amazing in this game, but it is a game and the ability of players to make birdies in this game is not really realistic, so my feeling is we need to pose some other forms of challenge not just pinching fairway bunkers at the 300 yard mark. I think greens should be tricky, elevation, all that stuff. Anyway, I don't want to impose further on your generosity - but if I pub a beta can I ping you to give it a look? Genuinely believe you could help me improve. Absolutely bud Iâd be happy to. Anytime đđ»!
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