loupus
Caddy
Posts: 33
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by loupus on Jan 3, 2021 20:18:00 GMT -5
First off, I want to give a HUGE thanks chadgolf for his LIDAR tool. This is my home club and Chad's tool made it possible for me to create an accurate, playable model that would have been impossible for me to create without it. I'd invite anyone who hasn't already done so to make a donation on his Patreon page. I'd also like to thank crazycanuck for his YouTube tutorials and numerous other forum members for their helpful posts. Through a TON of trial and error I learned a lot over the last 1.5 months creating the Blue course. It turned out better than I initially expected, but I'm sure more experienced designers will have plenty of valuable advice. With all that said, below is a description of the course along with screenshots of each hole. Please note the green maps I included with these screenshots are copyrighted by ezLocator. ezLocator uses highly accurate laser scans in their pin placement software service; which helps clubs manage wear to their greens and identify challenging/fun/playable pin positions. The owner also happens to be a fellow DAC member. He allowed me to incorporate his heat maps in yardage books I created for the club to sell in the pro shop. That's a whole other geeky golf project I'm happy to talk about
Dallas Athletic Club (DAC) was founded as a downtown Dallas social club in 1919. The club expanded to golf in the 1950s, eventually constructing two Ralph Plummer-designed courses (the Blue and the Gold) in far east Dallas. By far the club is most famous for hosting the 1963 PGA Championship, where Jack Nicklaus won his first of five PGAs. He also won the long-drive contest that week and to this day carries the money clip he received as a prize. Jack returned to DAC in the mid 1980s to completely redesign both courses. Nicklaus' protege Chet Williams has consulted on several smaller renovations in recent years. The Blue course is short by today's standards, playing just over 6,800 yards from the tips. It's not long enough to host another major or PGA Tour event, but it did host the 1997 US Mid-Am and the Texas Amateur as recently as 2019. In high-level tournaments, the course plays as a par 70; #s 1 and 10 are converted to par 4s. I chose to represent the course as the members play it; as a par 72. This means scores on PGA 2K21 are going to be especially low relative to par, but it was important to me to represent the course as it's played 99% of the time by members. My next project will be DAC's Gold course, followed by Weekapaug Golf Club in Rhode Island (my old club). Then I plan to redesign both DAC courses with changes I'd make if I had a magic wand. I hope everyone enjoys the course and look forward to questions and comments.
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loupus
Caddy
Posts: 33
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by loupus on Jan 3, 2021 20:23:35 GMT -5
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loupus
Caddy
Posts: 33
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by loupus on Jan 3, 2021 20:28:24 GMT -5
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jan 3, 2021 20:35:41 GMT -5
I like the look of this course. Loving the heat maps too. Nice work. Will give this a play.
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Post by mctrees02 on Jan 3, 2021 20:40:35 GMT -5
Cool to see a local course that I play once or twice a year make an appearance. The third hole is still the death of me as a lefty who plays a pull cut off the tee, I have yet to get through that hole without damage.
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mal
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 214
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Post by mal on Jan 3, 2021 21:02:31 GMT -5
This is a very well detailed rendition. I applaud your patience and tenacity for doing things like the driving range fence. IMO, the default green speed of 7.9 is just a tad too high for a few of the green surfaces, but overall this a fantastic job. Thanks for sharing and I look forward to your other courses.
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LucasEatWorld
Amateur Golfer
I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious.
Posts: 225
TGCT Name: LucasEatWorld
Tour: Platinum
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Post by LucasEatWorld on Jan 3, 2021 21:17:16 GMT -5
Amazing effort put into this. Definitely looking forward to giving it a play later tonight.
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jan 3, 2021 21:22:55 GMT -5
Amazing effort put into this. Definitely looking forward to giving it a play later tonight. Off topic... Who's that in the meme? Looks like a disturbingly overweight Jack Black!
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9ironanon
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 168
TGCT Name: Jackson Quagmire
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by 9ironanon on Jan 3, 2021 21:51:37 GMT -5
Amazing effort put into this. Definitely looking forward to giving it a play later tonight. Off topic... Who's that in the meme? Looks like a disturbingly overweight Jack Black! The Late Great Chris Farley
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loupus
Caddy
Posts: 33
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by loupus on Jan 3, 2021 22:29:01 GMT -5
The third hole is still the death of me as a lefty who plays a pull cut off the tee, I have yet to get through that hole without damage. #3 is tough. Plays left to right with the fairway sloping the same direction; so I usually end up blocked out down the right side. That and the narrow green makes it a three-shot hole for me almost every time. Does your cut end up flirting with the tree short right of the fairway?
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loupus
Caddy
Posts: 33
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by loupus on Jan 3, 2021 22:32:01 GMT -5
Amazing effort put into this. Definitely looking forward to giving it a play later tonight. Off topic... Who's that in the meme? Looks like a disturbingly overweight Jack Black! Old SNL bit: Schmitt’s Gay. Parody of fad beer offerings like “Bud Dry” as well as hyper-masculine beer commercials in the 80s.
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loupus
Caddy
Posts: 33
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by loupus on Jan 3, 2021 22:52:59 GMT -5
This is a very well detailed rendition. I applaud your patience and tenacity for doing things like the driving range fence. IMO, the default green speed of 7.9 is just a tad too high for a few of the green surfaces, but overall this a fantastic job. Thanks for sharing and I look forward to your other courses. Appreciate you noticing the range netting; considering how long that took. It’s impossible not to notice it playing 18 so I had to find a way to incorporate it. Thanks for the feedback on the green speeds. I played around with several, but settled on 7.9 to get the speed to match how I think the bent greens roll. There should always be a preferred side of the pin that offers an easier putt. I used the ezLocator maps to ensure pins were only in “green” areas (<3% slope), but from certain angles the putts can be treacherous. #13 is a good example. If you’re putting from front to back or vice versa, you often need to die the ball just past the ridge in the middle and let it release down the slope. I felt 7.9 made that putt in particular work as intended. Interestingly, the 13th green is the only one I had to make notable changes to the LIDAR topography. If you look at the heat map, you’ll see the oval-shaped ridge in the middle. LIDAR had that ridge as almost flat, so I had to create it from scratch. I also wanted approach shots to roll back off of mounds and not “stick” on slopes. When I’ve measured the real greens they roll between 10-11, but that will vary depending on the season. All that being said, considering this is my first course I certainly welcome perspective on appropriate speeds, etc.
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jan 3, 2021 22:54:55 GMT -5
Off topic... Who's that in the meme? Looks like a disturbingly overweight Jack Black! Old SNL bit: Schmitt’s Gay. Parody of fad beer offerings like “Bud Dry” as well as hyper-masculine beer commercials in the 80s. Thumbs up! Growing up in Australia I never had the opportunity to watch SNL. Am certainly aware of the program as there's some great clips all over You Tube. Just watched and very funny! Thank you for sharing. And now back to your fabulous course... Cheers
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mal
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 214
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Post by mal on Jan 4, 2021 7:05:18 GMT -5
This is a very well detailed rendition. I applaud your patience and tenacity for doing things like the driving range fence. IMO, the default green speed of 7.9 is just a tad too high for a few of the green surfaces, but overall this a fantastic job. Thanks for sharing and I look forward to your other courses. Appreciate you noticing the range netting; considering how long that took. It’s impossible not to notice it playing 18 so I had to find a way to incorporate it. Thanks for the feedback on the green speeds. I played around with several, but settled on 7.9 to get the speed to match how I think the bent greens roll. There should always be a preferred side of the pin that offers an easier putt. I used the ezLocator maps to ensure pins were only in “green” areas (<3% slope), but from certain angles the putts can be treacherous. #13 is a good example. If you’re putting from front to back or vice versa, you often need to die the ball just past the ridge in the middle and let it release down the slope. I felt 7.9 made that putt in particular work as intended. Interestingly, the 13th green is the only one I had to make notable changes to the LIDAR topography. If you look at the heat map, you’ll see the oval-shaped ridge in the middle. LIDAR had that ridge as almost flat, so I had to create it from scratch. I also wanted approach shots to roll back off of mounds and not “stick” on slopes. When I’ve measured the real greens they roll between 10-11, but that will vary depending on the season. All that being said, considering this is my first course I certainly welcome perspective on appropriate speeds, etc. A 10 to 11 should translate to a 6.5 - 7.5 in game speed setting, but it can be difficult to get all the greens on a lidar course to behave exactly like the real world counterpart with this single speed setting. I'm surprised to hear that you manually (notably) altered only one green surface considering that the underlying lidar data is a fairly coarse 1m vertical resolution. However, the greens seemed to retain much of their natural feel which I think has much to do with the exceptional pin placement.
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loupus
Caddy
Posts: 33
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by loupus on Jan 4, 2021 8:30:07 GMT -5
A 10 to 11 should translate to a 6.5 - 7.5 in game speed setting, but it can be difficult to get all the greens on a lidar course to behave exactly like the real world counterpart with this single speed setting. I'm surprised to hear that you manually (notably) altered only one green surface considering that the underlying lidar data is a fairly coarse 1m vertical resolution. However, the greens seemed to retain much of their natural feel which I think has much to do with the exceptional pin placement. If 7.9 equates to 12+, that’s higher than I intended. I’ll take another look when I create the Gold course. I’m sure the LIDAR margin of error you mentioned flattened some areas and steepened others; making them roll slower/faster than real life. #13 is the only green where I’d say I added a prominent new mound that essentially wasn’t in the LIDAR data. The ridge I added is narrow, so it makes sense that LIDAR missed the subtlety. I generally deferred to LIDAR unless something was clearly too flat or steep; rather than potentially screwing them up with my (improving but still developing) shaping skills. I did do a good bit of work around the edges of greens. In part I attribute that to my OSM outlines being on the edge of greens instead of inside the fringe as I believe Chad recommends.
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