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Post by Fizzbang on Jan 2, 2021 5:48:57 GMT -5
I just joined in an attempt to improve my course design skills and this forum has really helped, both in inspiration and with techniques, so thanks to all those that contribute.
I’d also welcome some critique on my first course (Don’t be harsh) on what I can do to reach your levels.
Course name - St Melia Golf Club
i’m about to start my second with all that I have learnt from the first.
Fizz
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Post by Oscar C on Jan 2, 2021 7:21:49 GMT -5
HI Fizzbang... welcome to the forum
I had a very quick round before bed tonight, see below some bullet points by hole... not as in depth as you may have liked but its a start.
Back tees pin 4
Overall notes present on most holes or surrounding out of play areas = Sculpting of cliffs (small ones) is abrupt and not quite fitting = Flatten tee boxes - many markers are floating or sunk = Use splines (not shapes) for fairway bunkers to remove the rough around the edge
H1 - floating tee box markers so flatten tee box, cart path on left mound looks odd and limits visibility, tree over the back of the green is not in the ground H2 - Planting on tee box, back drop off the green is too severe, i get that you are trying to create a fantasy kind of layout at this point but the tearing of the textures when you sculpt it like that ruins the look H3 - View from tee is nice, planting on fairway left near 270yds, need some planting on the creek to make it look realistic, the camber down to the creek is a bit unfriendly if i lay up on 2nd shot H4 - Fairway bunkers need sculpting work - very deep. Also are they in play off the tee? Fairway a little too thin H5 - These bunkers are a bit better in the fairway but again maybe a bit too far from back tees, Harsh 2nd shot for a par 4 (220 yds over a creek of doom) could have made it that far but not with that kind of hazard (especially in 2k21 as its much harder thank 2019), if green angled with the shot then it might not be as bad H6 - Long par 3 - if green wasnt "horizontal" it could help the golfer but this is tough with that bunker front and back H7 - My favourite tee shot so far, well guarded green, more work on the planting front left of it in the "cliff" H8 - My least favourite landing spot - almost forces me to layup as the hole isnt long enough to risk the hazards, again another over the water (valley of death) approach to the green H9 - I get what you are trying to do here but unless i have a headwind in going to the left fairway everytime, even if i do go right to lay up the 2nd isnt a problem as its short, good to see you thinking about this kind of strategy though
At the halfway mark - we are seeing a lot of 2nd shot thought where you have placed a valley or creek to protect the green or a long par 3 with awkward green angle making it hard, im gonna go through back 9 now and its getting lat so will only call out stuff that differs from the above ok
Back 9...
H10 - raise the edge of the water or the green as its too level with water, same with bunker looks flat H11 - Same strategy as many previous holes, green is too thin, H13 - Long par 3 with tiny green - no way to get close, everyone is playing from the back H15 - Strategy here is a bit flawed, normal drive but then i have to lay up (no choice) as no club gets me over the hazard, give me a risk reward here, either go for it or i dont - i went through the motions here. H16 - My favourite hole, great view from tee, nice greenshape, could have some more sculpting and planting around green but im not bothered by that for this review H17 - nice view from tee, get some more depth to the fairway bunker so i can see it better, another 3 shot par 5 that didnt make me think though as it was so long, i wasnt really given a chance to make a risky 2nd to improve my angle as it didnt let me get that far down the left... ask if im not making sense on this one.... H18 - Again a forced layup over a valley for the 2nd - i wish i could have had a crack at driving this one but even with low wind no joy
summary - there is a lot to like about your first course - if you manually planted this i can see potential for sure - if you make your next course and remove the amount of abrupt sculpting i think you will open up more options and remove the lay up / valley repetition...
Other designers may have some other observations but this is a start i hope, please PM me if you want some more detail, all the best
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Post by Fizzbang on Jan 2, 2021 9:53:28 GMT -5
Hi
Thanks for your time and comments..I do agree with a lot of what you have said and will look to improve in a these areas, I learnt a lot both in building this and watching other designers on initial sculpting techniques, as I did feel I was battling the terrain throughout to get what I wanted. I am looking to focus earlier on routing and elevations from the beginning, as this felt too ravined.
The course took me about a week, on and off to build, so I’ll definitely reflect on all you have said and develop that.
I watch a lot of b101, Jerry shields and crazycanucks videos.
once again, thanks for the feedback...very useful.
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Post by rob4590 on Jan 2, 2021 10:21:51 GMT -5
Hi Thanks for your time and comments..I do agree with a lot of what you have said and will look to improve in a these areas, I learnt a lot both in building this and watching other designers on initial sculpting techniques, as I did feel I was battling the terrain throughout to get what I wanted. I am looking to focus earlier on routing and elevations from the beginning, as this felt too ravined. The course took me about a week, on and off to build, so I’ll definitely reflect on all you have said and develop that. I watch a lot of b101, Jerry shields and crazycanucks videos. once again, thanks for the feedback...very useful.
2 comments:
1 of those three video channels is NOT going to help you at all (except to get in bad habits) - I'll leave you to work out which
Spending a 'week - on and off' to build a course is not going to be sufficient (unless you are a miracle worker) to make it really good - the top designers put in 100-150 hours of solid work per course.....
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Jan 2, 2021 11:29:12 GMT -5
I would never suggest Jerry to anyone that wants to know about golf course design or have any foundation in how to plant in the 2K21 course designer.
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ChrizZcE
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 153
TGCT Name: Christian Elsesser
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Post by ChrizZcE on Jan 2, 2021 11:45:25 GMT -5
Hi Thanks for your time and comments..I do agree with a lot of what you have said and will look to improve in a these areas, I learnt a lot both in building this and watching other designers on initial sculpting techniques, as I did feel I was battling the terrain throughout to get what I wanted. I am looking to focus earlier on routing and elevations from the beginning, as this felt too ravined. The course took me about a week, on and off to build, so I’ll definitely reflect on all you have said and develop that. I watch a lot of b101, Jerry shields and crazycanucks videos. once again, thanks for the feedback...very useful.
2 comments:
1 of those three video channels is NOT going to help you at all (except to get in bad habits) - I'll leave you to work out which
Spending a 'week - on and off' to build a course is not going to be sufficient (unless you are a miracle worker) to make it really good - the top designers put in 100-150 hours of solid work per course.....
No reason to pick on B101s tutorials. Granted, he doesn´t seem to be very meticulate when it comes to building courses, but I always get something out of his videos.
/s
Welcome to the community!
Not a bad first effort, but I highly recommend you start out learning and improving the basics. I recommend watching Crazycanuck1985 videos again to get you started, especially his videos on bunker sculpting. You don´t want your bunkers to cut into the Fairway and some of the bunkers were sculpted way too harshly. Only when you are more advanced should you check out b101 videos.
Also one week isn´t enough to build a decent course. It takes me about one week just to select the right tee markers for my course
Give yourself atleast a month to make a course. Good luck and looking forward to your next course.
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Post by Oscar C on Jan 2, 2021 14:26:20 GMT -5
Fizz I’m happy to see you say it took you a week, with respect if you told me you spent 100+ hours then we would have a problem Most designers I would say spend 100 hours on a really good course. The more you plan out before opening the designer the easier it will be for you. By that I mean drawing the hole routing on paper or other media helps me. I do the par layout, look for what holes I can see from other holes and even think about which way the lighting is coming from. All takes time but jump back in and keep us updated.
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Post by cd06 on Jan 6, 2021 4:46:31 GMT -5
I would never suggest Jerry to anyone that wants to know about golf course design or have any foundation in how to plant in the 2K21 course designer. I feel like I've seen this quote from somewhere before...
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Post by berldo on Jan 6, 2021 17:46:33 GMT -5
Canucks tutorials and the Joy of planting streams are fantastic resources, B101s South Yarra series is very in depth (intimidating but also inspiring for beginners) I also watch YouTube playthroughs of courses. B101 and Canuck did comprehensive playthroughs recently of the last design comp and I expect the streaming/videos of the World Cup of design will be exceptional. As a designer we have the tools, we just have to take the time and practice. Take your time, become a part of the online community, absorb information and also be prepared to take critiques, listen to music (I recommend Frank Zappa) and enjoy the process.
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jan 6, 2021 18:02:50 GMT -5
They can, what's he talking 'bout ? It's like three clicks.
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