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Post by trigs on Aug 28, 2020 13:40:24 GMT -5
I'm new to this game and I think I enjoy the course design just as much as the rest of the game. I've been spending some time creating my first ever course. It's nowhere near completion yet, but I thought I'd post some pics and explanations here just to get some possible feedback and helpful suggestions. Right now, I'm thinking about naming it Snaking Isles Golf Course. As you can see, I made a giant lake and will have the holes "snaking" their way around it. I'm also playing with the idea of snakes and considering naming each hole after a different breed of snake that fits with the description of each hole. For example, here is a preview of a couple specific holes. Hole 2 - The Rattlesnake - Par 4 - 275 yardsRattlesnakes are known to be fairly dangerous and will attack if provoked. However, they will provide a warning to those who venture too close with their renowned rattle on the end of their tails. This short part 4 featuring a drive-able green and a hole placement in the back lies in wait for those thinking it's safe to try and stick a tee shot with their driver. With a severely sloping right to left green, those who try to get too close may get bit. A layup to the small fairway is the safer play. Hole 4 - The Python - Par 5 - 478 yardsPythons are one of the longest known snakes in the world, and they are also one of the most common snakes kept as pets by those who enjoy the risk of owning such an animal. This lengthy par 5 offers up a choice off the tee. You can play it safe and aim for the main fairway, which is still fairly narrow, but requires three shots to make the green. Your second choice is to take the risk and aim left towards the jutting peninsula with the chance to reach the green in two. Be wary, however, as not only is your landing area small, but even slightly rolling off the fairway can be disastrous as it makes the green impossible to reach and you are forced into a difficult shot back to the main fairway. Just like the python, many a golfer's hopes have been swallowed up by this hole. Let me know what you guys think so far. I know I still have a TON to improve on and finish still but any feedback is welcome. I'm also throwing around some other course themes/ideas in my head. For example, Golf City - the course is literally inside a city! You start in the industrial area with factories and such, then work your way through downtown with it's tall buildings and skyscrapers, and finally finishing in the suburbs. Some features would be tees and fairways right down the streets. You'd be hitting balls over and around various buildings. You be able to tee off from some guy's front yard while aiming for the green in some other guy's backyard two streets over. I think it could be fun!
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 28, 2020 17:23:05 GMT -5
So far, what is presented is going to be an extremely frustrating round of golf. Any miss is penalized severely with a stroke penalty and maybe even a re-hit. On the 4th hole, I have no idea where a second shot would be played to without taking a huge risk of dunking one in the water. I could see someone trying this layout for an absurd challenge, but I don't think folks would enjoy a casual round. That doesn't even consider the technical issues going on here. I think a visit to CrazyCanuck1985 Course Design 101 is in order.
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Post by cavacom on Aug 29, 2020 8:32:34 GMT -5
I like it
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Post by trigs on Aug 29, 2020 9:04:19 GMT -5
So far, what is presented is going to be an extremely frustrating round of golf. Any miss is penalized severely with a stroke penalty and maybe even a re-hit. On the 4th hole, I have no idea where a second shot would be played to without taking a huge risk of dunking one in the water. I could see someone trying this layout for an absurd challenge, but I don't think folks would enjoy a casual round. That doesn't even consider the technical issues going on here. I think a visit to CrazyCanuck1985 Course Design 101 is in order. Thank you for the feedback. In regard to the difficulty level of hole 4, yes it is by far the most difficult hole on the course (and most likely will stay that way). If aiming for the main fairway, the second shot is most likely a 3 wood that lands just short of the green. The second shot is actually easier than the tee shot from what I can tell with my play testing due to the angle of the fairway - it straightens out more for the second shot. If aiming for the peninsula and landing on the fairway, the second shot is a 5 wood/hybrid/4 iron to the green which again is an easier shot than the tee shot since there's more area to work with. Missing the fairway when aiming for the peninsula is the only time a second shot becomes extremely difficult. I am assuming that the difficulty you are referring to does not include hole 2 as it is probably one of the easiest holes so far as it is clearly an eagle opportunity for those who can control their driver well. After testing it a few times, I found the right spot to aim for and managed to hit a few tee shots right near the hole. Laying up also makes it an easy pitch to a birdie. Thanks for the link but I have already watched CrazyCanuck1985's videos. They were great for sure. I would really appreciate if you could explain what technical issues you are referring to. Again, I am a complete newb to this so I do not know what you are referring to at all.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Aug 29, 2020 9:37:23 GMT -5
Technically, your fairways are a wavy. Jared edges like that wouldn't exist in real life because they'd be a nightmare to mow. Generally, if a fairway turns, it should be gradually and have a reason.
Your sculpting seems a bit basic, it looks like you just raised the playable area out of the water in one click.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Aug 29, 2020 9:46:21 GMT -5
Also, if 2 is the easiest on the course, you might want to play a few rounds on master difficulty and reassess the course playability.
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Post by trigs on Aug 29, 2020 10:50:15 GMT -5
Technically, your fairways are a wavy. Jared edges like that wouldn't exist in real life because they'd be a nightmare to mow. Generally, if a fairway turns, it should be gradually and have a reason. Your sculpting seems a bit basic, it looks like you just raised the playable area out of the water in one click. Thanks for the feedback. I understand your comment about the fairways. There are some wavy parts to them. I really haven't worked on the elevation too much yet. That's something I definitely have to improve still.
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Post by trigs on Aug 29, 2020 10:57:50 GMT -5
Also, if 2 is the easiest on the course, you might want to play a few rounds on master difficulty and reassess the course playability. Is that because it seems like a difficult hole? It's one of the easiest it seems to me but probably not the easiest. It is a par 4 that is easily reachable from the tee. I could try testing the course with master clubs but I don't know how much that would help. I'd probably shoot 100 on 9 holes because I'm that bad with master clubs Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 29, 2020 11:06:11 GMT -5
Let's take a look at this hole - the Par 5 4th. This hole, a long dogleg hole with an alternate fairway with a shorter, direct line from tee to green, can be categorized as a "Lido" template. This hole presents at least two options. Yours presents at least 3: - Take a stab at the island - Pull out the Driver and challenge the water and the bunker - Lay up off the tee short of the bunker I've listed these in order of risk. The problem with your hole, from a strategic standpoint lies in the two less-risky options: - If taking on the bunker does not possibly make the green reachable in two, why would anyone opt for that shot? - If a player lays up short of the bunker, where does his second shot go? What is the safe bailout for this player? You may want to shorten this hole a little bit to give the following options: - From the island, a long iron to the green. You get the best angle here, also. - From the fairway after challenging the bunker, a fairway wood to the green, having to clear the greenside bunker. Your green should be contoured in a way that executing a perfect shot to the green's apron results in either a tough eagle putt or an easy lag for birdie. Consider raising the left side of the green. Approaches from the main fairway will feed to the back-right leaving either a makeable eagle putt or one that must climb a ridge. Misses short and long are severely penalized, while misses to the right leave a strong change of recovery. - From the fairway, after laying up, some safe bailout area should be provided. The player should have the option to play safe and make par with three good shots, or even a bad one and two good ones. Consider widening a part of this fairway to 30 yards at around 120 yards from the pin. That gives the conservative player, and a player who has found the bunker, an option to leave a full wedge to a green guarded by a front bunker. Now, the technical stuff: The first thing I notice is the way the bunkers cut into the fairways. Your fairways should, ideally, wind their way around the hazards. If you use light rough, a consistent band of light rough should appear around all the fairways and bunkers. The uniformity of this application of rough makes the course look extremely neat and polished. The next thing I notice is the extremely wavy fairways - especially the 4th hole. It looks like the fairways are constructed out of small brush shapes that connect, but the transitions between shapes is very sharp. This looks extremely raw and sloppy. As for sculpting, the course looks very unpolished. The 4th fairway, for example, appears to slope toward the water on all sides. Bunkers look to be flat without a high side and no internal sculpting. It's hard to tell more than that because the pictures are overheads. Tee boxes do not appear to be raised, so sightlines from the tees are likely poor, but again, it's hard to tell. Looking at the construction of your course, my advice would be to work on getting comfortable with splines. I also want to encourage you to keep at it. This is a starting point for many designers, and many of the folks in this community have had access to these tools for a half-decade.
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 29, 2020 11:12:16 GMT -5
Also, if 2 is the easiest on the course, you might want to play a few rounds on master difficulty and reassess the course playability. Is that because it seems like a difficult hole? It's one of the easiest it seems to me but probably not the easiest. It is a par 4 that is easily reachable from the tee. I could try testing the course with master clubs but I don't know how much that would help. I'd probably shoot 100 on 9 holes because I'm that bad with master clubs Thanks for the feedback. It's because Master difficulty is hard. It's hard for anyone to hit consistently, so courses really need to have good misses and bad misses. On any risky shot, there has to be someplace for the golfer to recover from and still make par. If you've got water all around, then any miss is a bad miss. It's fine to have that on one hole (think Sawgrass 17) but a full 18 of any miss being punished so severely is going to be super frustrating. A hole where there is a good miss and a bad miss is more engaging. The bad miss is usually guarding the ideal position, and the good miss usually flanks the safe option. Having good misses and bad misses gives players the option to play safe and think, "if I miss out here, I'm still OK" which encourages things like playing to the center of the green and taking a long putt.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Aug 29, 2020 12:51:50 GMT -5
As Patrick said, try and leave an out for mis hits. You can protect the better angle with a hazard but if even a layup is protected on both sides by water, it seems a bit frustrating.
Also I've never been a fan of having water/ob come into play on both sides of a hole. They're too penal. Especially if there's no drop for the water.
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Post by trigs on Aug 29, 2020 13:04:32 GMT -5
Okay, I understand what you're saying. Thanks for the feedback.
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