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Post by fadgewacker on Jan 10, 2020 5:39:54 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the argument... I'm in the never really going to actually win unless it's a red letter day kinda group. I've had top 3's / top 5's throughout the flicking era (while using a swing that is unnatural to me), but I don't take the game seriously enough to really try to improve a specific aspect of my game to push those finishes any closer, and there is always someone just that 5% better even on my best days. However, does it annoy me that there are folk blatantly gaming the system, hoovering up WGR points and taking places at the big events that could otherwise be afforded to legitimate players? Yes. Even though I rock up, half pissed, and take FAR too many risks with the way I play, I'm incredibly competitive at heart, and though we have our rivalries within PGA, the main board, the WGR / Fedex / Majors, is what really matters - it's what's so great and drew me to this site initially, before I discovered how great a community it is. TLDR - IMO Flickers / exploiters affect everyone, but they are not the reason that most of us will still never have a chance at winning. I'm ok with that. In life, people are better than me at things. Flickers just piss a lot of people that are looking up the board off. At the end of the day though, it's on HB , or the conscience of a flicker, to fix it. The swing isn't changing. The ability to police the swing isn't really able to change, to the best of my knowledge... however certain trends are starting to be recognised as I understand it... so we're stuck with it as it exists. What is good, though, is that SOME people, after a considerable period of time suckling from the teet and lapping up the points, are, it seems, changing things up in order to compete more fairly (only after they've been well and truly found out, of course). Best of luck competing in 2020 lads.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 6:07:40 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the argument... I'm in the never really going to actually win unless it's a red letter day kinda group. I've had top 3's / top 5's throughout the flicking era (while using a swing that is unnatural to me), but I don't take the game seriously enough to really try to improve a specific aspect of my game to push those finishes any closer, and there is always someone just that 5% better even on my best days. However, does it annoy me that there are folk blatantly gaming the system, hoovering up WGR points and taking places at the big events that could otherwise be afforded to legitimate players? Yes. Even though I rock up, half pissed, and take FAR too many risks with the way I play, I'm incredibly competitive at heart, and though we have our rivalries within PGA, the main board, the WGR / Fedex / Majors, is what really matters - it's what's so great and drew me to this site initially, before I discovered how great a community it is. TLDR - IMO Flickers / exploiters affect everyone, but they are not the reason that most of us will still never have a chance at winning. I'm ok with that. In life, people are better than me at things. Flickers just piss a lot of people that are looking up the board off. At the end of the day though, it's on HB , or the conscience of a flicker, to fix it. The swing isn't changing. The ability to police the swing isn't really able to change, to the best of my knowledge... however certain trends are starting to be recognised as I understand it... so we're stuck with it as it exists. What is good, though, is that SOME people, after a considerable period of time suckling from the teet and lapping up the points, are, it seems, changing things up in order to compete more fairly (only after they've been well and truly found out, of course). Best of luck competing in 2020 lads. All very fair points, Mark. I'm not expecting anyone to not be annoyed by flickers. It all definitely sucks. I would just like the complaining about not competing and fighting for cuts due to other people or other reasons to die down a bit every week in the same tones. Complain about your own games. I do it almost every week!
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Post by fadgewacker on Jan 10, 2020 6:19:43 GMT -5
We’re on the same page Tyler 👍
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Post by flyingj75 on Jan 10, 2020 6:42:14 GMT -5
I think there's more non-flickers up there to be quite honest. We've all seen what happened to the best flicker in the world of TGC. She quit flicking/is attempting to quit and now can't play the game. RIP, Ronda. Agreed. Maybe they have data to back up those numbers but I'd think such an unnatural swinging motion that isn't legal doesn't make up such a large percentage of players at this point. I think we all agree in theory and maybe their aren't that many. When there are 4 or 5 near the top of the leader board, week in and week out, and the way the game has been basically dominated by it over the last year and a half, guess what, I'm gonna b%& and moan about it every now and then. I don't want them to become complacent. I don't want them to think we have forgotten. That's one reason I appreciate when Mark does the "Ding Ding Ding" on a weekly basis and tells us who has been API'D. Tha admins should be doing this instead of the news going quietly into the night. I mean when the World #1 is now excluded from majors it should me publicized, it should be a warning. So yeah, I'll continue to open my big mouth😯
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 6:48:58 GMT -5
Agreed. Maybe they have data to back up those numbers but I'd think such an unnatural swinging motion that isn't legal doesn't make up such a large percentage of players at this point. I think we all agree in theory and maybe their aren't that many. When there are 4 or 5 near the top of the leader board, week in and week out, and the way the game has been basically dominated by it over the last year and a half, guess what, I'm gonna b%& and moan about it every now and then. I don't want them to become complacent. I don't want them to think we have forgotten. That's one reason I appreciate when Mark does the "Ding Ding Ding" on a weekly basis and tells us who has been API'D. Tha admins should be doing this instead of the news going quietly into the night. I mean when the World #1 is now excluded from majors it should me publicized, it should be a warning. So yeah, I'll continue to open my big mouth😯 Oh by all means give a nice big shout out when someone gets flagged lol. All for that.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 10, 2020 7:45:38 GMT -5
And I'm saying that no matter what level someone is (competing for wins, as you are suggesting the "moaners" need to do,) potential top 10-20, or making cuts (another important distinction,) flickers taking up the upper half of the leaderboards affects EVERYONE, not just those attempting to finish very high. So I'm talking about something different and you're talking about something that's talked about every single week and isn't going to change for a while. Everyone can carry on complaining about not being able to compete now. 👍 Dude, come on now. Can you please tell what is even REMOTELY "new" about ANY of the this?? "The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time. Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts." I'm not calling you out here, like saying the above is stupid or something. But it definitely isn't "something different;" I've seen that said countless times. And, sorry to repeat myself, but it does NOTHING to counteract the issue that the middle to upper reaches of the leaderboards are overtaken by people gaming the system. These "lesser" players than you would be far more likely to make cuts, either without, or competing on a more even keel, the flickers.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 7:57:44 GMT -5
So I'm talking about something different and you're talking about something that's talked about every single week and isn't going to change for a while. Everyone can carry on complaining about not being able to compete now. 👍 Dude, come on now. Can you please tell what is even REMOTELY "new" about ANY of the this?? "The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time. Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts." I'm not calling you out here, like saying the above is stupid or something. But it definitely isn't "something different;" I've seen that said countless times. And, sorry to repeat myself, but it does NOTHING to counteract the issue that the middle to upper reaches of the leaderboards are overtaken by people gaming the system. These "lesser" players than you would be far more likely to make cuts, either without, or competing on a more even keel, the flickers. Never said it was completely new material but no, I don’t see people often challenging the “woe is me, flickers have ruined the entire game” stuff that just overruns the thread most weeks. Unless there’s data to say otherwise, I really don’t see there being an absurd number of players gaming the system every week to hurt everyone else’s chances. Maybe I’m wrong. As far as I knew it was a select few who are typically at the top of the leaderboard. And you’re right, some guys fighting to make cuts would make more cuts if those few guys were bad from not being able to flick. But then there’s a new group fighting hard to make cuts that complain about whatever new reason arises. And that’s all I’m talking about.
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Post by fadgewacker on Jan 10, 2020 8:25:50 GMT -5
Dude, come on now. Can you please tell what is even REMOTELY "new" about ANY of the this?? "The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time. Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts." I'm not calling you out here, like saying the above is stupid or something. But it definitely isn't "something different;" I've seen that said countless times. And, sorry to repeat myself, but it does NOTHING to counteract the issue that the middle to upper reaches of the leaderboards are overtaken by people gaming the system. These "lesser" players than you would be far more likely to make cuts, either without, or competing on a more even keel, the flickers. Never said it was completely new material but no, I don’t see people often challenging the “woe is me, flickers have ruined the entire game” stuff that just overruns the thread most weeks. Unless there’s data to say otherwise, I really don’t see there being an absurd number of players gaming the system every week to hurt everyone else’s chances. Maybe I’m wrong. As far as I knew it was a select few who are typically at the top of the leaderboard. And you’re right, some guys fighting to make cuts would make more cuts if those few guys were bad from not being able to flick. But then there’s a new group fighting hard to make cuts that complain about whatever new reason arises. And that’s all I’m talking about. I think you might be surprised by the breadth of the issue Tyler. I’m certain that data supporting it would ever see the light of day on these forums, but it’s not a drop in the ocean, as I understand it. It’d be all too easy to point out a number of examples, but that’d be just stirring the pot unnecessarily.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 10, 2020 8:27:43 GMT -5
Dude, come on now. Can you please tell what is even REMOTELY "new" about ANY of the this?? "The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time. Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts." I'm not calling you out here, like saying the above is stupid or something. But it definitely isn't "something different;" I've seen that said countless times. And, sorry to repeat myself, but it does NOTHING to counteract the issue that the middle to upper reaches of the leaderboards are overtaken by people gaming the system. These "lesser" players than you would be far more likely to make cuts, either without, or competing on a more even keel, the flickers. Never said it was completely new material but no, I don’t see people often challenging the “woe is me, flickers have ruined the entire game” stuff that just overruns the thread most weeks. Unless there’s data to say otherwise, I really don’t see there being an absurd number of players gaming the system every week to hurt everyone else’s chances. Maybe I’m wrong. As far as I knew it was a select few who are typically at the top of the leaderboard. And you’re right, some guys fighting to make cuts would make more cuts if those few guys were bad from not being able to flick. But then there’s a new group fighting hard to make cuts that complain about whatever new reason arises. And that’s all I’m talking about. "Whatever new reason" doesn't sound the same as cheating to me. Seems like a false equivalence to me... Understand people getting annoyed by constant "moaning," but cheating in a game seems about as big an issue as that game can have. I've played in loads of different societies, and see people getting banned for cheating all the time. I don't know what the numbers are in PGA, but I HIGHLY doubt it's as low as like 5 of the top 10 in the world, or whatever you're implying...
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Post by hippystein on Jan 10, 2020 8:49:30 GMT -5
I’m certain that data supporting it would ever see the light of day on these forums, but it’s not a drop in the ocean, as I understand it. It’d be all too easy to point out a number of examples, but that’d be just stirring the pot unnecessarily. Aint that the truth. 👍👍👍👍👍👍 Hence like i said only way to stamp it out is play using pro clubs. Api can still catch the suspect swing patterns but. Those that manipulate in any way rigged or short swing will have less of an advantage. Golfers of all levels can have a game. Dont you all think that theres people who play in the lower tours that would love a shot to get into a major. Real underdog stories. I hate using pro clubs but do you know what. If it meant the tour was on a more level playing field id be all for it. I know for a fact alot of the people who are swinging funky using whatever method possible to hit straight or wont stream cos of there internet speed and connection 😆 would be moaning like crazy. If theyre that good play with the pro clubs like everyone else. Since the feedback meter was removed the tour has just been savaged because people cant get caught out like before. Using pros I guarantee there'd be less accusations for a start. Api picks up if ppl use tour clubs. Job done!!! Get it done scott? ??
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Post by GW_Hope on Jan 10, 2020 8:52:33 GMT -5
I always love it when people tell me how I should feel.
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Post by titan30003 on Jan 10, 2020 11:50:24 GMT -5
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but overall did pretty well this week. -15 -10 -7 -13 for a -45 total. Round 3 was a crazy round. 3 bogeys, a double bogey, 3 pars, a hole in one, and the rest birdies.
Course was pretty good, though during my double bogey I did say out loud "this is the stupidest course I've ever played" but I apologized soon after, I didn't mean it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 13:12:05 GMT -5
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but overall did pretty well this week. -15 -10 -7 -13 for a -45 total. Round 3 was a crazy round. 3 bogeys, a double bogey, 3 pars, a hole in one, and the rest birdies. Course was pretty good, though during my double bogey I did say out loud "this is the stupidest course I've ever played" but I apologized soon after, I didn't mean it. How dare you post about the actual tournament!
Back in the day we had posts within the PGA that were actually different topics, but the Spoiler threads are mostly a catch all any more.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 13:24:39 GMT -5
I think there's more non-flickers up there to be quite honest. We've all seen what happened to the best flicker in the world of TGC. She quit flicking/is attempting to quit and now can't play the game. RIP, Ronda. Agreed. Maybe they have data to back up those numbers but I'd think such an unnatural swinging motion that isn't legal doesn't make up such a large percentage of players at this point. I have gone through all of this in the past, but I will again:
I did the short swing before TGC on the EA games all through TGC1, TGC2, and from my first swing on tGC19 up until getting an API pull last season. It was perfectly natural for me. I still have yet to find a solid, reliable way to swing and tinker with it as needed. Probably how it was "supposed" to be. I find the "chess piece holder" swing extremely 'unnatural' to use your term. The swing type isn't what is or not illegal, it is if you pass API.
I kept using the short swing I had always done even after it was becoming apparent that others were getting API pulls. Why? Because it was natural and I had set a standard to use it until I got an API pull because maybe mine was different or even more unusual or chaotic. Mostly I was fooling myself. So I now don't use it. My swing is literally first and foremost to try and NOT short swing, but the issue is that when I try to be too deliberate in doing so, you get those goofy fishtails off to the left or right (see my avatar) that cause random results off to a side.
So I now have to lengthen the swing, but ALSO not swing up too far because I find the recoil/fishtail feedback affecting your results something that HB should never have had in there. I get some short swings, mostly near full, some full swings, and an occasional recoil/fishtail feedback line.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 13:27:09 GMT -5
I think there's more non-flickers up there to be quite honest. We've all seen what happened to the best flicker in the world of TGC. She quit flicking/is attempting to quit and now can't play the game.RIP, Ronda.
Results definitely will suffer. The really good players will rebound. Someone like me makes occasional cuts, although I have a separate putting issue that's been happening for a few months on top.
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