HB's position on the so called "short/flick swing"!

[Cyclerob]

As per HB Craig:

We haven't chimed in because there's really nothing to discuss. The swing is functioning as intended. If it wasn't we would have addressed the issue when it was first raised.



The downswing time to contact is identical regardless of the distance of your input. We still take the same number of data points along the input line to calculate your swing plane accuracy. Sure, not swinging all the way to the top means those data points are closer together (for better or worse depending on the user and input device) but the swing system is dealing in the thousandths of a second timings on the down-swing and the swing plane accuracy calculation includes ALL points taken along the swing plane - not the "follow through points" specifically. The difference between a full and 3/4 swing is negligible, at the end of the day.



Every single input device will behave slightly differently when handling that level of precise calculation, as will every person. There is no means to enforce full swings without taking control out of the users hands and adding arbitrary penalties... this, in our opinion, is not a solution and goes against the ethos of TGC 2019.



If there are some people who can achieve better results swinging with a short swing, kudos to them. Most people cannot do this... much like most people cannot "quick scope" in CoD, Halo, or CS... much like most people cannot speed shift a manual transmission. If you're good enough to pull it off and find success with it, then all the power to you. It's a game, have fun playing it the way you enjoy playing it.



Myself, Shaun, and everyone else here who has tried this tactic end up with terrible shot outcomes. I'm sure, like everything, if it was practiced enough it could become a viable approach to swinging, depending on the input device... It's impossible to achieve a short down-swing line on my XB1 controller on my PC without hitting a very fast tempo. It just cannot be done. I have more success using a 360 controller... but it feels terrible and I'm not seeing the benefit personally - for me it's not a viable swing... neither are johneric's "2 thumbs swing" or "the chess piece pinch" approaches to swinging the stick. To each their own.



This approach to swinging involves a certain skill to achieve and there are inherent risks involved with attempting it, just like a full swing, a flick swing, a pinch swing, a 2 thumb swing, etc. Regardless of the success of some individuals, it's certainly not an exploit from what we've seen and experienced.



There you go, the chime hath chimed. 8)



EDIT: Oh, and to be clear here, your swing plane line has ZERO affect on your swing power as some folks were eluding to earlier.



EDIT 2: I suppose there is a visual fix we could make that would no longer display the shortened swing lines... but then our swing feedback would no longer portray accurate information... much like the TGC 2 swing line. We wanted it to be a true 1 to 1 depiction of your swing for TGC 2019, that was a key part of our decision to overhaul the swing feedback meter.

« Last Edit: Today at 09:52:39 AM by HB_CraigC »

Seems to be part of the game and it's really too bad that quite a few of us are penalized when it's something that natural for us to do!  There's also something further in that thread about the swing data that sounds interesting...

Anyways...

[chfg8r]

Why would you want to enforce 3/4 swings? One of my biggest complaints about the game (outside of the backwards sand play - higher loft = higher lofted shot/shorter carry not lower lofted shot/shorter carry) is the inability to hit a 3/4 swing. The Pros do it all the time in real life. I do it all the time in real life. But on this you're stuck with 100% or you get catastrophic results.

As was said above, "more power to them."

[mrohde4]

Dec 22, 2018 12:34:55 GMT -5 chfg8r said:

Why would you want to enforce 3/4 swings? One of my biggest complaints about the game (outside of the backwards sand play - higher loft = higher lofted shot/shorter carry not lower lofted shot/shorter carry) is the inability to hit a 3/4 swing. The Pros do it all the time in real life. I do it all the time in real life. But on this you're stuck with 100% or you get catastrophic results.

As was said above, "more power to them."

Not sure what you’re discussing here, but the above post is discussing how some PS4 players utilize a flaw in the game’s design to achieve an accuracy advantage by only moving the joystick during the downswing slightly past the origin point. It’s a swing “flick” method that achieves 100% power but doesn’t finish the downswing as is encouraged in the tutorial. To put it differently, this method proves that completing the downswing by achieving a “full” white line actually only serves to punish the player’s accuracy.

[shrug shoulders emoji]

[Deleted]

Dec 22, 2018 18:42:33 GMT -5 mrohde4 said:

Dec 22, 2018 12:34:55 GMT -5 chfg8r said:

Why would you want to enforce 3/4 swings? One of my biggest complaints about the game (outside of the backwards sand play - higher loft = higher lofted shot/shorter carry not lower lofted shot/shorter carry) is the inability to hit a 3/4 swing. The Pros do it all the time in real life. I do it all the time in real life. But on this you're stuck with 100% or you get catastrophic results.

As was said above, "more power to them."

Not sure what you’re discussing here, but the above post is discussing how some PS4 players utilize a flaw in the game’s design to achieve an accuracy advantage by only moving the joystick during the downswing slightly past the origin point. It’s a swing “flick” method that achieves 100% power but doesn’t finish the downswing as is encouraged in the tutorial. To put it differently, this method proves that completing the downswing by achieving a “full” white line actually only serves to punish the player’s accuracy.

[shrug shoulders emoji]

Why just PS4 users?, can do it on PC with a Xbox1 controller also

[Violinguy69]

[Deleted]

*yawn*

[Royce]

Dec 22, 2018 19:20:53 GMT -5 hammers1man said:

Dec 22, 2018 18:42:33 GMT -5 mrohde4 said:

Not sure what you’re discussing here, but the above post is discussing how some PS4 players utilize a flaw in the game’s design to achieve an accuracy advantage by only moving the joystick during the downswing slightly past the origin point. It’s a swing “flick” method that achieves 100% power but doesn’t finish the downswing as is encouraged in the tutorial. To put it differently, this method proves that completing the downswing by achieving a “full” white line actually only serves to punish the player’s accuracy.

[shrug shoulders emoji]

Why just PS4 users?, can do it on PC with a Xbox1 controller also

Very interesting, I do this on XB1 all the time and never realized it, I always kind of felt the downswing motion could be a much shorter stick travel distance (not much past dead center), and about 50% of my shots never produce a full downswing line but I always keep it straight. Backswing I’m all wonky and out of the cone but my downswing is typically straight. It does seem more difficult since the last patch to short swing

[Deleted]

Dec 22, 2018 19:20:53 GMT -5 hammers1man said:

Dec 22, 2018 18:42:33 GMT -5 mrohde4 said:

Not sure what you’re discussing here, but the above post is discussing how some PS4 players utilize a flaw in the game’s design to achieve an accuracy advantage by only moving the joystick during the downswing slightly past the origin point. It’s a swing “flick” method that achieves 100% power but doesn’t finish the downswing as is encouraged in the tutorial. To put it differently, this method proves that completing the downswing by achieving a “full” white line actually only serves to punish the player’s accuracy.

[shrug shoulders emoji]

Why just PS4 users?, can do it on PC with a Xbox1 controller also

I definitely can't, well I can, but when I tried it it gave me a very fast downswing tempo 90% of the time, it's a total non-starter for me.

Also I'm wondering if short swinging is still going to be an issue post-patch, because they've changed it to be more like TGC2, whereby pulls or pushes in the cone actually push or pull the ball, certainly way more than before. The issue previously was that slightly wonky players could effectively hit straight with the short swing, but I doubt that advantage will be nearly as devastating now, because if they're slightly off the ball will go offline more.

[Deleted]

I like oreos

[greyosprey]

The solutiom = 3-click. 😉

[grinder12000]

Old news. BLah blah blah

[Cyclerob]

Dec 22, 2018 18:42:33 GMT -5 mrohde4 said:

Dec 22, 2018 12:34:55 GMT -5 chfg8r said:

Why would you want to enforce 3/4 swings? One of my biggest complaints about the game (outside of the backwards sand play - higher loft = higher lofted shot/shorter carry not lower lofted shot/shorter carry) is the inability to hit a 3/4 swing. The Pros do it all the time in real life. I do it all the time in real life. But on this you're stuck with 100% or you get catastrophic results.

As was said above, "more power to them."

Not sure what you’re discussing here, but the above post is discussing how some PS4 players utilize a flaw in the game’s design to achieve an accuracy advantage by only moving the joystick during the downswing slightly past the origin point. It’s a swing “flick” method that achieves 100% power but doesn’t finish the downswing as is encouraged in the tutorial. To put it differently, this method proves that completing the downswing by achieving a “full” white line actually only serves to punish the player’s accuracy.

[shrug shoulders emoji]

Hum...  Not exactly what it says in the first paragraph...  HB says that the difference is negligeable...  and according to them it's not an exploit! 

[Deleted]

[GW_Hope]

More from Craig.
Q) Is there the same number of data points regardless of swing input distance?
A) Yes. Data points are placed over time, not over distance. All downswing input time windows full or short use the same timeframe.
Q) Are the data points closer together on a short swing?
A) Yes.
Q) Does this make it easier to swing straighter?
A) Possibly. This is dependent on input device (attempting this via Xbox One S controller on PC all but impossible without destroying tempo, while using a 360 controller was slightly more forgiving, but hardly an improvement to scoring)
Q) Does it have any impact on tempo?
A) No.

Now, there are a number of methods where our players can eliminate the X axis from their swing... None of which we can 100% accurately prevent. XB1 elite controllers allow users to disable the axis on their controller from the OS level, as does Steam Big Picture Mode. I'm not as familiar with PS4 but I would suspect this is possible - please correct me if I'm wrong. Short swings are not anywhere near as guaranteed as any of the other methods players use to achieve straight line swings.

TGCT use the API to identify and regulate "straight-shooters" for their purposes. If short swing players get picked up by it, that's for TGCT to deal with, if they do not, then TCGT will need to determine what they deem fair play.

Because we cannot accurately and fairly determine a great shot from a "straight shooter" shot, we reduced the overall impact input had on the shot outcome for TGC 2019. Placing far more emphasis on the tempo, which cannot be faked. (nothing is impossible, but we haven't seen it happen yet)

This debate has run its course.

Now go play around of golf and have fun.

[GW_Hope]

Now that is official I will be adapting to this swing. It’s a huge advantage. Look at this swing, it was heading way off line but stopped just short for an acceptable shot.