|
Post by mcbogga on Jun 18, 2019 5:47:20 GMT -5
Who gives a fck ,its a fish for christs sake there to b eaten . This is coming from someone who doesnt eat meat but that is what its there for to be eaten .I choose not to but have no cares if u do As for feelings in a fish hahaha thats the best eva ,had me crying with laughter I'm not against people eating fish! Can't you see what my point was?? It's blatantly obvious that a) gutting a fish when it's alive will make it no fresher than 2 mins later and b) fish can experience pain and have a discernable level of intelligence. Japan might have a different opinion on point “a” above and for the most part point “b” as well. Fresh sashimi does actually taste better.
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Jun 18, 2019 5:58:11 GMT -5
I'm not against people eating fish! Can't you see what my point was?? It's blatantly obvious that a) gutting a fish when it's alive will make it no fresher than 2 mins later and b) fish can experience pain and have a discernable level of intelligence. Japan might have a different opinion on point “a” above and for the most part point “b” as well. Fresh sashimi does actually taste better. Please explain how it might be more fresh literally 1-5mins after it's been bashed on the head. That logic is fking nuts to me. My understanding of "fresh," for example a fish market anywhere in the world, where the fish is caught that morning and put on ice, is HOURS after it is killed?! If you can quote me a Japanese scientist contradicting point b I'll consider it. A layman or person from the fishing industry, not so much...
|
|
|
Post by paulus on Jun 18, 2019 6:13:59 GMT -5
Numerous studies in recent years have demonstrated that fish feel and react to pain. In one study, when rainbow trout had acid or bee venom injected into their sensitive lips, they stopped eating, rocked back and forth on the tank floor, and rubbed their lips against the tank walls. Fish who were injected with a harmless saline solution didn’t display this abnormal behaviour.
In many years time our attitudes towards animals in this era will be looked upon in horror. I eat meat, so am well aware of how hypocritical that makes me. Animals must die to sate my hunger - would prefer it to happen without additional unnecessary suffering tho.
|
|
|
Post by AFCTUJacko on Jun 18, 2019 6:29:01 GMT -5
In many years time our attitudes towards animals in this era will be looked upon in horror. In 2075 I don't think it will be "OMG I can't believe you used to eat animals"
It will be "OMG I can't believe you used to use so much energy & resource to create a single beefburger when you can just grow a reasonable simulation in a lab"
Personally if I were to phase out/give up the meat it would be from an environmental angle rather than a moral one.
Not unsympathetic to the animal welfare angle but most animals would never exist without the meat industry and I kind of feel like there isn't a humane way to purposefully kill something. Quite a simple view, I admit.
|
|
|
Post by paulus on Jun 18, 2019 6:37:09 GMT -5
Not so much OMG you used to eat animals. We're made to do that. More "OMG you used to do <insert horrible conditions/treatment> to animals" angle I was thinking... the mechanised mass production & processing of animals & meat we currently use will be seen as morally indefensible in 2075. There will be commercially viable lab grown tissue by then as you point out. Basic versions are already here - but a tad expensive right now.... first burger to use lab grown meat was estimated to cost $250,000! And it was described as quite bland Improving every year tho....
|
|
|
Post by cliffs on Jun 18, 2019 7:36:34 GMT -5
So glad I will long gone from this 3rd rock from the sun before I have to eat "artificial" meat. 200 years ago man did not die from most of the causes of deaths we have today. Ever wonder why? And for the gun nuts, I am not talking about you and your toys, I'm talking about what we put in and on our bodies to survive.
|
|
|
Post by Royce on Jun 18, 2019 7:51:52 GMT -5
Not so much OMG you used to eat animals. We're made to do that. More "OMG you used to do <insert horrible conditions/treatment> to animals" angle I was thinking... the mechanised mass production & processing of animals & meat we currently use will be seen as morally indefensible in 2075. There will be commercially viable lab grown tissue by then as you point out. Basic versions are already here - but a tad expensive right now.... first burger to use lab grown meat was estimated to cost $250,000! And it was described as quite bland Improving every year tho.... Is this cruel? I filleted my live pike for my kids and found a small bait fish in her stomach. I wonder if Patty the Pike kindly asked Barry the Baitfish if she could eat him for dinner, because you know fish have brains and communicate with each other, they may even write letters to each other and send texts with their dorsal fins and iPhones.....what an utterly absurd thought but that's how you people think so be it.
My kids & their friends found it fascinating to watch the process and see how the circle of life really works (Barry the Baitfish had a worm in his stomach, hopefully Willy the Worm didn't suffer too much). You enjoy your lab grown fake meat so an animal doesn't have to lose it's life, we'll just become a country over populated with sick, starving deer but I suppose that's what you libs would prefer versus me blasting one with a crossbow to both help control the overpopulation and feed my peoples.
It was a mommy Pike with a massive egg sack too, so I potentially committed fish genocide, but we have an over abundance of pike on my lake and the DNR allows capture and killing of any size pike (normal min length is 24" to keep), but that's how we balance the fish population between walleyes, pan fish, perch, crappie etc. The baby pike meat tastes the best too.
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Jun 18, 2019 7:57:05 GMT -5
Numerous studies in recent years have demonstrated that fish feel and react to pain. In one study, when rainbow trout had acid or bee venom injected into their sensitive lips, they stopped eating, rocked back and forth on the tank floor, and rubbed their lips against the tank walls. Fish who were injected with a harmless saline solution didn’t display this abnormal behaviour. In many years time our attitudes towards animals in this era will be looked upon in horror. I eat meat, so am well aware of how hypocritical that makes me. Animals must die to sate my hunger - would prefer it to happen without additional unnecessary suffering tho. I'm (in my opinion!) A non-judgmental vegetarian. I am completely fine with your position on it! Yeah, there's a mild hint of hypocrisy to it, but sh1t we all have that somewhere in our lives?! To accept and take seriously the other side of the debate deserves respect in itself. If people could just adjust their attitudes to meat consumption and animal cruelty, accept the current situation is not sustainable and maybe treat meat as more of a treat and go down the more ethical route, it would make SUCH a difference. People LOVE to go on about how vegetarians are preachy and annoying, and I get it, it's not untrue. But I think evangelical meat eaters are WAY worse, and more common. I NEVER bring into conversation that I'm veggie. And if it does come up (when they see my food choices) I get fired at with all kinds of questions and assumptions. "Don't you know what these teeth are for??" And "caveman were meat eaters." No actually, cavemen were omnivores, who rarely ate meat! Our guts are NOT designed to process 2-3 meals of meat a day. Cavemen were essentially scavengers for meat, who maybe occasionally hunted and killed something. Their bones show they ate meat maybe once a week, or even fortnight. I heard a fascinating thing on Mike Tyson's podcast. (He was a vegan for a large part of his life.) Scientists studied the bone marrow of Roman gladiators, and the vast majority were vegan! Anyway, went off on a bit of a tangent there. Your point was really good
|
|
|
Post by Royce on Jun 18, 2019 7:58:37 GMT -5
So glad I will long gone from this 3rd rock from the sun before I have to eat "artificial" meat. 200 years ago man did not die from most of the causes of deaths we have today. Ever wonder why? And for the gun nuts, I am not talking about you and your toys, I'm talking about what we put in and on our bodies to survive. Curious what your point is regarding life & death 200 years ago? The life expectancy in the early 1800's was around 40 years, we're hovering near 80 years today, seems like the things we put in our bodies now are helping more than hurting.
But I'm on your page regarding the "artificial" meat thing, never in my lifetime will I put that sh%$ in my body, and especially not to appease some tree hugging freak shows. Real meat tastes great, as do real vegetables cooked over a real fire from real trees I chopped down on my land.
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Jun 18, 2019 8:02:56 GMT -5
In many years time our attitudes towards animals in this era will be looked upon in horror. In 2075 I don't think it will be "OMG I can't believe you used to eat animals"
It will be "OMG I can't believe you used to use so much energy & resource to create a single beefburger when you can just grow a reasonable simulation in a lab"
Personally if I were to phase out/give up the meat it would be from an environmental angle rather than a moral one.
Not unsympathetic to the animal welfare angle but most animals would never exist without the meat industry and I kind of feel like there isn't a humane way to purposefully kill something. Quite a simple view, I admit.
I am fine with this position, morally, but I'd take you task on a couple of points. Yeah, they wouldn't exist; and I'd like that! Let's have them not existing! Because at the moment, they exist in order to suffer! There are definitely (more) humane ways to kill animals. Going through the extreme examples- dogs and cats being deliberately forced to watch each other be slaughtered because the humans believe the fear makes the meat taste nicer; pigs in the slaughter line knowing other pigs ahead are being killed; people believing fish meat starts to go bad the instant a fish is killed (how dumb I that??) So you have to gut it alive. To the more humane one. Animal in the field gets taken into the barn on its own and gets a bolt to the head and dies instantly; fish gets smacked over the head the moment it gets caught and put on ice. Etc etc.
|
|
|
Post by Royce on Jun 18, 2019 8:31:35 GMT -5
In 2075 I don't think it will be "OMG I can't believe you used to eat animals"
It will be "OMG I can't believe you used to use so much energy & resource to create a single beefburger when you can just grow a reasonable simulation in a lab"
Personally if I were to phase out/give up the meat it would be from an environmental angle rather than a moral one.
Not unsympathetic to the animal welfare angle but most animals would never exist without the meat industry and I kind of feel like there isn't a humane way to purposefully kill something. Quite a simple view, I admit.
I am fine with this position, morally, but I'd take you task on a couple of points. Yeah, they wouldn't exist; and I'd like that! Let's have them not existing! Because at the moment, they exist in order to suffer! There are definitely (more) humane ways to kill animals. Going through the extreme examples- dogs and cats being deliberately forced to watch each other be slaughtered because the humans believe the fear makes the meat taste nicer; pigs in the slaughter line knowing other pigs ahead are being killed; people believing fish meat starts to go bad the instant a fish is killed (how dumb I that??) So you have to gut it alive. To the more humane one. Animal in the field gets taken into the barn on its own and gets a bolt to the head and dies instantly; fish gets smacked over the head the moment it gets caught and put on ice. Etc etc. Live wells are a thing for a reason mate, I have them on all my fishing boats. Why would I want a bunch of dead fish hanging around to decompose? Sometimes I catch so many that I can't fillet them all, or I go fishing at dusk and don't want to work my knives in the dark. It's really nice to just walk out to my dock and grab a live fish from my well when I feel like eating. The only negative is sometimes the real big fish will eat a smaller fish in my cage lol,
|
|
|
Post by Royce on Jun 18, 2019 8:47:26 GMT -5
You have a mental block that you are entitled to money you didn't earn. Amazon is awesome. Just ordered some American themed Taylor Made golf shoes for my annual 4th of July tournament. Innovation is well.. mind blowing July 4th is coming soon. My favorite holiday. Love telling you Europeans to go @!$# themselves. 😁 Amazon is incredible, I click a button and a box arrives on my porch the next day, talk about innovation Bezos deserves every cent he's earned. Did you buy the shoes Woodland was wearing for the US Open victory because those were awesome.
Independence Day is the best holiday ever, my absolute favorite. Friends, family, warm weather, meat cooked over wood, fireworks, guns, booze. Every year on the 4th at dusk a guy skis around the entire lake holding an American flag with a flair attached to the top! I hope one of my kids will be chosen one year to do the honor.
|
|
|
Post by joegolferg on Jun 18, 2019 12:15:18 GMT -5
But as long as Paul and Royce are OK, nothing else matters...
|
|
|
Post by paulus on Jun 18, 2019 12:32:33 GMT -5
I found out today that Monopoly - the game that was invented to highlight the dangers inherent in capitalism - now has a cheaters edition to better reflect real life
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 14:44:16 GMT -5
But as long as Paul and Royce are OK, nothing else matters... Yeah that is right it is all about me. Whatever man. A lot of people depend on this family business and I plan is to not let them down. Sorry if that means making money by working hard and taking some risks. Ohh and the government surely does like my payments I make to them every month because I do not want to disrupt cash flow by paying it all at once. Why don't you start a company so you can see how easy it. I mean all you do is make some product and the cash just rolls in and you have nothing or no one to worry about! Serious question. If the sh%$ hit the fan and you had to choose between going to Royce's house to survive or one of your progressive liberal buddies house which one would you choose?
|
|