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Post by SweetTeeBag on Nov 3, 2016 12:28:45 GMT -5
Wow. The leaks coming out of the NYPD, who first looked at Weiner's computer in their sexting investigation, are simply stomach turning. If this stuff is real, it's over for Hillary. Even amongst her most ardent supporters. Oh I doubt it. There seems to be a lot of Clinton lovers here. They must have donated to the Clinton Foundation as well.  The Clinton's were broke in 2000 when they left the Hoar (sorry Bill!) White House and now their net worth is 350 million. Amazing! |
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Post by timeracer on Nov 3, 2016 12:47:33 GMT -5
Wow. The leaks coming out of the NYPD, who first looked at Weiner's computer in their sexting investigation, are simply stomach turning. If this stuff is real, it's over for Hillary. Even amongst her most ardent supporters. Oh I doubt it. There seems to be a lot of Clinton lovers here. They must have donated to the Clinton Foundation as well. The Clinton's were broke in 2000 when they left the Hoar (sorry Bill!) White House and now their net worth is 350 million. Amazing! I disagree. Even the most hardened career criminals in jail have no tolerance for the types of crimes being talked about here. |
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Post by nevadaballin on Nov 3, 2016 12:59:15 GMT -5
100% sure very other "official" government server has been hacked 50 times, including the Pentagon. The email thing is over rated. There are two differences. First it is 10000x harder to hack a government server. She had her government emails with the United States top secrets on a server that had less security on it than my mother's home computer (I set up that security). She should be found guilty of improperly storing government data securely for that. Second and MUCH more importantly, when a government server is hacked, they have programs to record exactly what was stolen and downloaded. Therefore they have the ability to make changes, recall assets and take other reactive actions in response to what was stolen. On Hillary's server since she deleted so many emails, many that had been found with classified emails, that the FBI probably will never know what was exactly stolen or the potential damage it could do. What she did was 100% preventable. She should have had a state.gov address. If she was hacked then she would have been in the clear and the FBI would have known what was taken. Now they don't and we don't have any idea what they took or what to do to react/protect anyone and it opens her up to blackmail. THAT is why it is not being over rated. As for what is on Weiners's computer? It is a full backup of Huma's phone. A copy that contains all the emails she had for the Clinton Foundation and her time at State with Hillary. The only difference, is it is a FULL copy with no one having gone through to edit or delete. So very likely there are the 33,000 emails that Hillary deleted AND new emails about the Clinton Foundation that backs up many of the wikileaks information of corruption and pay to play. Add all that along with the fact that while Comey didn't press charges due to 'intent', by his own definition, the reason he did NOT press charges against her for 'gross negligence' is that he couldn't prove 'harm' to the US. If he now has evidence of 5 hacks, he has that evidence. She may not have intended the hacks but her gross negligence in having the server the way it was, PLUS the harm that is provable, is more than enough. This hasn't even touched all the Clinton Foundation stuff that the FBI has been investigating for over a year, was told to back off by the DOJ and started it up again recently. What is on this laptop is from a person who was high up in the Foundation and that is what I think she will ultimately be indicted on. Hold on, how do you know what security layers were on her server? I'm no stranger to server security so I'm curious what you know about her mail server security and how you know it? Considering how often government servers are compromised, I wouldn't consider them to be "1000x harder" at all. State Dept, White House, Pentagon, OPM, military servers and others have been breached often. |
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Post by nevadaballin on Nov 3, 2016 13:20:09 GMT -5
Wow. The leaks coming out of the NYPD, who first looked at Weiner's computer in their sexting investigation, are simply stomach turning. If this stuff is real, it's over for Hillary. Even amongst her most ardent supporters. Oh I doubt it. There seems to be a lot of Clinton lovers here. They must have donated to the Clinton Foundation as well. The Clinton's were broke in 2000 when they left the Hoar (sorry Bill!) White House and now their net worth is 350 million. Amazing! There isn't a whole lot of love for Clinton here. It's more about not letting Trump grab the wheel. Both have serious character issues so that is a wash imo but also secondary to what I consider before i vote. I'm more concerned about what they are going to attempt to implement - but no one wants to discuss that. It's all about character assassination. I've brought this up several times in this thread but it goes untouched so I'll say it again >>>> Trump's zero revenue/high debt agenda is incredibly toxic to all of us. Explain why you would support that? |
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Post by timeracer on Nov 3, 2016 13:49:24 GMT -5
Oh I doubt it. There seems to be a lot of Clinton lovers here. They must have donated to the Clinton Foundation as well. The Clinton's were broke in 2000 when they left the Hoar (sorry Bill!) White House and now their net worth is 350 million. Amazing! There isn't a whole lot of love for Clinton here. It's more about not letting Trump grab the wheel. Both have serious character issues so that is a wash imo but also secondary to what I consider before i vote. I'm more concerned about what they are going to attempt to implement - but no one wants to discuss that. It's all about character assassination. I've brought this up several times in this thread but it goes untouched so I'll say it again >>>> Trump's zero revenue/high debt agenda is incredibly toxic to all of us. Explain why you would support that? Ok, I'll bite. First, the national debt has doubled over the course of the Obama presidency. Meaning he has doubled the debt accrued by all administrations before him. So I'm real dubious of any claims from Clinton supporters or anti Trumpers about his plans and what it will do to debt. Whatever he does, it can't get a whole lot worse than what we have now. Trumps plans very much mimic Reagans. Of course, the school taught and media approved line is trickle down doesn't work. Except it did. For two decades. Same media and education tells us that the 90's economy was great because of Bill. Wrong. The economy was great because of the dot com boom. Which wasn't born in the 90's. It was born in the 80's. It's all really simple. When corporate taxes are low, businesses look to expand. When they expand, new jobs are created and new technologies are born out of the competitive marketplace. When corporate taxes and regulations are high, businesses out of obligation to shareholders do what they have to. Meaning loss of jobs and moving then overseas to more friendly environments. When corporate taxes are low, the money is spent by the corporations. Which trickles all the way down the system. Ford builds a new plant in a city. Thousands have new jobs. New businesses that support the factory spring up around it. More money is being transacted in the system, which means more money is being taxed rather than sitting in a account. Government revenue goes up. |
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Post by nevadaballin on Nov 3, 2016 14:47:26 GMT -5
There isn't a whole lot of love for Clinton here. It's more about not letting Trump grab the wheel. Both have serious character issues so that is a wash imo but also secondary to what I consider before i vote. I'm more concerned about what they are going to attempt to implement - but no one wants to discuss that. It's all about character assassination. I've brought this up several times in this thread but it goes untouched so I'll say it again >>>> Trump's zero revenue/high debt agenda is incredibly toxic to all of us. Explain why you would support that? Ok, I'll bite. First, the national debt has doubled over the course of the Obama presidency. Meaning he has doubled the debt accrued by all administrations before him. So I'm real dubious of any claims from Clinton supporters or anti Trumpers about his plans and what it will do to debt. Whatever he does, it can't get a whole lot worse than what we have now. Trumps plans very much mimic Reagans. Of course, the school taught and media approved line is trickle down doesn't work. Except it did. For two decades. Same media and education tells us that the 90's economy was great because of Bill. Wrong. The economy was great because of the dot com boom. Which wasn't born in the 90's. It was born in the 80's. It's all really simple. When corporate taxes are low, businesses look to expand. When they expand, new jobs are created and new technologies are born out of the competitive marketplace. When corporate taxes and regulations are high, businesses out of obligation to shareholders do what they have to. Meaning loss of jobs and moving then overseas to more friendly environments. When corporate taxes are low, the money is spent by the corporations. Which trickles all the way down the system. Ford builds a new plant in a city. Thousands have new jobs. New businesses that support the factory spring up around it. More money is being transacted in the system, which means more money is being taxed rather than sitting in a account. Government revenue goes up. The whole trickle down theory only looks good on paper, it does not work that way in the real world. We know this because we've seen it fail historically. Cutting taxes does not lead to the growth of the economy, better jobs, better wages, etc. It just slashes revenue and leads to recessions. There's no argument here, it's been proven via it's own application in our economic system. The fact that Trump wants to do this again shows that he has no sense of the country's economic history. Trickle down does not work and it cannot work unless there was a mandate for those getting the tax breaks to pump that money back - but that would be a socialist move. There is nothing about trickle down that requires them to do so with said tax breaks, so they keep the money for themselves, as they always have. |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Nov 3, 2016 14:59:16 GMT -5
There isn't a whole lot of love for Clinton here. It's more about not letting Trump grab the wheel. Both have serious character issues so that is a wash imo but also secondary to what I consider before i vote. I'm more concerned about what they are going to attempt to implement - but no one wants to discuss that. It's all about character assassination. I've brought this up several times in this thread but it goes untouched so I'll say it again >>>> Trump's zero revenue/high debt agenda is incredibly toxic to all of us. Explain why you would support that? Ok, I'll bite. First, the national debt has doubled over the course of the Obama presidency. Meaning he has doubled the debt accrued by all administrations before him. So I'm real dubious of any claims from Clinton supporters or anti Trumpers about his plans and what it will do to debt. Whatever he does, it can't get a whole lot worse than what we have now. Trumps plans very much mimic Reagans. Of course, the school taught and media approved line is trickle down doesn't work. Except it did. For two decades. Same media and education tells us that the 90's economy was great because of Bill. Wrong. The economy was great because of the dot com boom. Which wasn't born in the 90's. It was born in the 80's. It's all really simple. When corporate taxes are low, businesses look to expand. When they expand, new jobs are created and new technologies are born out of the competitive marketplace. When corporate taxes and regulations are high, businesses out of obligation to shareholders do what they have to. Meaning loss of jobs and moving then overseas to more friendly environments. When corporate taxes are low, the money is spent by the corporations. Which trickles all the way down the system. Ford builds a new plant in a city. Thousands have new jobs. New businesses that support the factory spring up around it. More money is being transacted in the system, which means more money is being taxed rather than sitting in a account. Government revenue goes up. Trickle down economics works when the wealth trickles down. Increasingly, the wealth isn't trickling down. Because business, out of obligation to shareholders, are only interested in profit That's why the top 10% are getting richer and the 90% are working harder and harder and never getting a pay rise, or losing their jobs because they are moving overseas where big business can pay people next to nothing and get away with it. Trump is corporate greed and excess personified - ie, part of the problem, not the solution. |
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Post by tastegw on Nov 3, 2016 15:50:51 GMT -5
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Post by tastegw on Nov 3, 2016 15:55:08 GMT -5
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Post by Brighttail on Nov 3, 2016 16:35:09 GMT -5
Hold on, how do you know what security layers were on her server? I'm no stranger to server security so I'm curious what you know about her mail server security and how you know it? Considering how often government servers are compromised, I wouldn't consider them to be "1000x harder" at all. State Dept, White House, Pentagon, OPM, military servers and others have been breached often. When James Comey was in front of Congress he described the security on her server as "non-existant". He continued by saying if she had used a gmail.com it would have been far more secured as at least gmail understands the need for encryption and multil-layered security. The person that set it up, Brian Pagliano stated to agents that he set it up with minimal security and simply anti-virus software. When he was asked was it set up to hold classified data and his reply was no, he hadn't set it up that way because he was under the understanding that it was just going to be a private email server for private emails with no government emails going over it. I will say again, that Hillary has a duty to protect ALL her emails, just like every other government employee. Other government employees are protected from liability and indictment if their email is hacked on a government server because it is the government that oversees the IT dept and security. So unless they do something willingly to compromise security, no criminal charges would be laid. They could face disciplinary action, like any employee in any company if they were to stupidly click on an attachment that infected the system. Hillary on the other hand, the moment she set up her own server, took ALL the responsibility of protecting that server on herself. The government was not involved in any way, if they were they would have built her a special room (SKIF) where she could access her emails (only from that room) and would have set up the server to back up and record/save the emails in accordance to the Federal Records Act. This is the exact reason she did NOT want the government to set it up for her. So she took is upon herself, hired the people to set it up (5k to Pagliano) and didn't take the steps to protect those emails. As I stated before the other reason why you want things on a gov server is so you can track WHAT was stolen in a hack. The government can and does get hacked but they have programs to let them know what was taken/accessed ect. Can these programs be defeated, perhaps, but there was NOTHING on Hillary's server. Hell I could have cracked into her system, that is how soft her security was. If you want to believe that it is 'not a big deal' that is fine. But I have friends who have top secret clearance and who have dealt with classified materials over long careers. They are 100% sure if any of them did anything close to what Clinton did, they would be in jail. Period. The simple fact is the ONLY reason she isn't in jail is because she is 1. Hillary Clinton, former first lady and 2. the front runner (at the time) and potential Democrat Nominee for President of the United States under a Democrat President. End of story. |
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Post by timeracer on Nov 3, 2016 17:44:40 GMT -5
Not going to get into any further debate on trickle down economics. The concept is so simple, but a lifetime of indoctrination leaves some unable to grasp realities of economics.
But I will leave this here. It's a quote that I think best sums up why to vote for Trump.
"“I think he has a lot to offer to this country and its people, especially when we’re talking about the economy, Donald Trump has single-handedly helped stop the recession, more so than dozens of other so-called billionaires. And I don’t know how the experts on the matter feel, but in my book that’s hard evidence of the man’s business prowess and integrity, as well. And I think everyone would agree those are commendable character traits for anyone looking to tackle the most difficult problems and challenges in the world, quite literally.”
"So, yes – Donald Trump is someone I could very easily see winning the support of the people. And I don’t think he would do that with his flammable rhetoric and negotiation skills – which are both things he’s known for – but with common sense and respect for his fellow countrymen. But, most of all – I think his relationship with the opposite sex would bring him the most political points. I think he respects women and treats them as equals and I also think that would bring him a significant lead over anyone unlucky enough to be running against him,”
Oh yeah, BTW, that ringing endorsement of Donald Trump, complete with acknowledgement of his strong factual record of women's rights, was made by none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton a mere 3 years ago.
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Nov 3, 2016 18:21:12 GMT -5
How could people actually vote for Hillary. It just blows my mind
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Post by Brighttail on Nov 3, 2016 20:05:37 GMT -5
How could people actually vote for Hillary. It just blows my mind I get it. Honestly I do. I can even respect it... to a point. I mean if you really can't fathom a President Trump and don't believe in a third party candidate, people can convince themselves that 'all politicians are corrupt' and then hold their noses while voting for pretty much the most corrupt Presidential candidate ever to run for office. It isn't about liking or even condoning her actions. They rationalize it by saying, "she isn't Trump." Considering who Trump is and what he has said and done, I can understand it. The people who I can't understand are those who make excuses for Hillary's actions. Those that say, "it is no big deal" or "it's only emails." Worse yet, "it is a vast right-wing conspiracy." These people are either living in an alternate reality or have a problem facing it. All this is pretty simple. 1. Hillary believes she is above the law or that the law applies to others, not her. 2. She setup this whole email server because she wanted to use her Blackberry, because she had used one for years and loved the physical keys. Unfortunately there is precisely ONE Blackberry on this planet with enough security and encryption to be allowed to be used for top security emails and that belongs to President Obama. Hillary was denied one. This upset her so she found a way to use one anyway. She even had her people buy used Blackberries which were an older model type because she didn't like the newer version. She went through 8 of those, along with an Iphone, IPAD ect. 3. The secondary reason she setup her personal server is she didn't want people knowing her business. She wanted to email who she wanted for State Dept. business, personal business and Foundation business, and she didn't want anyone reading those emails unless SHE okayed it. This was not possible on a STATE.GOV email address, because anything sent/received from such an address would be subject to FOIA requests. As we have seen, she took all her emails with her when she left State, then had her staff go through them and then gave back only the ones she wanted to. She attempted to destroy the rest. As we also have found out, the FBI was able to get back many of the ones she deleted and found over 2000 so far that were work related and were deleted in violation of the Federal Records Act. The rest, were unrecoverable...until Anthony Weiner's laptop. Huma had them all, backed it up on that laptop and now the FBI has it.  Anyway, if you want to vote for Hillary to keep Trump out, then that makes you a misguided person, vote for a 3rd party candidate that better deserves your vote. If you are voting for her cause you believe she hasn't done anything wrong, then you are just a poor delusional person who probably really needs a nap for about 2 years. |
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Post by nevadaballin on Nov 3, 2016 20:31:06 GMT -5
Not going to get into any further debate on trickle down economics. The concept is so simple, but a lifetime of indoctrination leaves some unable to grasp realities of economics. But I will leave this here. It's a quote that I think best sums up why to vote for Trump. "“I think he has a lot to offer to this country and its people, especially when we’re talking about the economy, Donald Trump has single-handedly helped stop the recession, more so than dozens of other so-called billionaires. And I don’t know how the experts on the matter feel, but in my book that’s hard evidence of the man’s business prowess and integrity, as well. And I think everyone would agree those are commendable character traits for anyone looking to tackle the most difficult problems and challenges in the world, quite literally.” "So, yes – Donald Trump is someone I could very easily see winning the support of the people. And I don’t think he would do that with his flammable rhetoric and negotiation skills – which are both things he’s known for – but with common sense and respect for his fellow countrymen. But, most of all – I think his relationship with the opposite sex would bring him the most political points. I think he respects women and treats them as equals and I also think that would bring him a significant lead over anyone unlucky enough to be running against him,” Oh yeah, BTW, that ringing endorsement of Donald Trump, complete with acknowledgement of his strong factual record of women's rights, was made by none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton a mere 3 years ago. The same Donald Trump who has said how wonderful Hillary was a few years ago. Yes, it is that f'd up. Backing up on trickle down because I can't let it get written off like we don't know what we are talking about. The historical record shows it does not work, regardless of how simple it looks on paper. There is theory (on paper) and then there is application (real world). It's proven fact. There is no other way around it. If we move on to what independent analysis of Trump's plan, it's practically devastating. All are in agreement that his economic plan will mostly likely land us right back in another recession. Why would you want that? |
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Post by nevadaballin on Nov 3, 2016 20:38:02 GMT -5
Hold on, how do you know what security layers were on her server? I'm no stranger to server security so I'm curious what you know about her mail server security and how you know it? Considering how often government servers are compromised, I wouldn't consider them to be "1000x harder" at all. State Dept, White House, Pentagon, OPM, military servers and others have been breached often. When James Comey was in front of Congress he described the security on her server as "non-existant". He continued by saying if she had used a gmail.com it would have been far more secured as at least gmail understands the need for encryption and multil-layered security. The person that set it up, Brian Pagliano stated to agents that he set it up with minimal security and simply anti-virus software. When he was asked was it set up to hold classified data and his reply was no, he hadn't set it up that way because he was under the understanding that it was just going to be a private email server for private emails with no government emails going over it. I will say again, that Hillary has a duty to protect ALL her emails, just like every other government employee. Other government employees are protected from liability and indictment if their email is hacked on a government server because it is the government that oversees the IT dept and security. So unless they do something willingly to compromise security, no criminal charges would be laid. They could face disciplinary action, like any employee in any company if they were to stupidly click on an attachment that infected the system. Hillary on the other hand, the moment she set up her own server, took ALL the responsibility of protecting that server on herself. The government was not involved in any way, if they were they would have built her a special room (SKIF) where she could access her emails (only from that room) and would have set up the server to back up and record/save the emails in accordance to the Federal Records Act. This is the exact reason she did NOT want the government to set it up for her. So she took is upon herself, hired the people to set it up (5k to Pagliano) and didn't take the steps to protect those emails. As I stated before the other reason why you want things on a gov server is so you can track WHAT was stolen in a hack. The government can and does get hacked but they have programs to let them know what was taken/accessed ect. Can these programs be defeated, perhaps, but there was NOTHING on Hillary's server. Hell I could have cracked into her system, that is how soft her security was. If you want to believe that it is 'not a big deal' that is fine. But I have friends who have top secret clearance and who have dealt with classified materials over long careers. They are 100% sure if any of them did anything close to what Clinton did, they would be in jail. Period. The simple fact is the ONLY reason she isn't in jail is because she is 1. Hillary Clinton, former first lady and 2. the front runner (at the time) and potential Democrat Nominee for President of the United States under a Democrat President. End of story. Yea, i remember that testimony. Fair enough. The ironic part - "the government was not involved in any way" - when everyone is bashing how bad the government is at taking care of things. But ya gotta wonder - how do those government servers continue to get hacked if they are so secure? I'm just not sold that even those are much better than a gmail account either. That's another conversation for another time though |
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The Clinton's were broke in 2000 when they left the 
