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Post by Doyley on Sept 16, 2016 11:28:23 GMT -5
If you could find a way to get all (or nearly all) the elites in the same tourney about 20 times a year, that would be perfect, IMO. This year it was about 10, I think (4 majors, 4 WGCs, PLAYERS, Olympics), so doubling that number would be great. I think the main problem is scheduling, though. Too many high-quality tourneys are held from late March to mid August, so it'd be preferable if the additional "elite" events were spaced out better. I don't know which ones to pick as additional "elite" events, but I suppose it could be an arbitrary decision on the administrators' part. I don't really care if it's all or some - I'd prefer to leave that up to each individual - but I would like to present certain events as options/opportunities to create stronger fields - which under my current proposal would be the low purse R2D events which won't adversely affect the top end players because they make enough bank to not be affected by missing out on the paltry payouts. |
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Post by TROWELHEAD on Sept 16, 2016 11:36:03 GMT -5
Maybe we shud just leave it as it is ........................................  |
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 16, 2016 11:37:48 GMT -5
If you could find a way to get all (or nearly all) the elites in the same tourney about 20 times a year, that would be perfect, IMO. This year it was about 10, I think (4 majors, 4 WGCs, PLAYERS, Olympics), so doubling that number would be great. I think the main problem is scheduling, though. Too many high-quality tourneys are held from late March to mid August, so it'd be preferable if the additional "elite" events were spaced out better. I don't know which ones to pick as additional "elite" events, but I suppose it could be an arbitrary decision on the administrators' part. I don't really care if it's all or some - I'd prefer to leave that up to each individual - but I would like to present certain events as options/opportunities to create stronger fields - which under my current proposal would be the low purse R2D events which won't adversely affect the top end players because they make enough bank to not be affected by missing out on the paltry payouts. Alright, so maybe identify the ten (or so) lowest-paying regular events on Euro and force the top XX (30-50, let's say) in the R2D to either cross over that week or sit out. I guess the main problem is that lower-tier PGA guys are screwed by this... Maybe then force the top XX (same number as on Euro) in the FedEx to either play the PGA event or sit out, and then let the rest of the PGA players cross over if they like. I could see this being a decent system, but I'm not sure how complicated it'd be for the guys on your end, Doyley. Just my thoughts. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 11:39:57 GMT -5
OK, being honest, I've had things happen in real life this week that has made me not give a flying donkey dong about anyone on this forum or the game of golf in general. So I didn't see everyone's posts, I don't have time to read 27 pages and so if I repeat something, tough Canuck.
In regards to the idea of an elite tour...
Do not make it PGA or Euro or anything we have right now. Create our own, special entity: The TGC Tour. This tour year in and year out would be for the top 50 players in the world in World Golf Ranking. This way, we have something special to recognize the top players in the game around the world and it allows us to show off the best that TGCT has to offer to everyone. It's a spotlight that shines every week just like a major even on the most minor of those events. They could still have majors, they could still have everything that PGA and Euro have, it's just that these are the special elites.
I'm sure the top 50 won't like being segregated into their own tour, but I like the idea that the best of the best of the best are put on display for the world to see and each week it's a shootout of the best the game has to offer in their own little world. They have their own course, which can be jacked up to new levels of difficulty if need be and it puts them in place of honor.
It's like in college football in real life. Right now, we have 250+ schools in the top division. But there's no way to say Alabama - South Alabama is a game people want to see. Alabama - Ohio State? Top ratings. So do people want to see The Machine go up against player #140 in the world each week? No (and I don't know who #140 is so this is not a personal shot at you). However, would people want to see The Machine, Machine, Jr, Captain Video and the other elites in their own shootout each week? Hell yeah, I'd want to see that.
So I'm in favor of a special elite tour to showcase the best that TGCT has to bring to the world. I think it would be good for all of us and good to promote TGCT as the most viable and credible TGC related website/leagues in the world.
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Post by Lowenberger on Sept 16, 2016 11:44:57 GMT -5
What I want is the top players playing together more regularly - beyond Majors/WGC events. Obviously every week didn't fly but more than 8 times a year. That hopefully answers your why questions Smiffy - just trying to find a way to implement it without forcing it on players. Obviously if losing 10% of your WGR points doesn't entice you to swap tours - and you'd rather cash a small check for R2D reasons - the idea won't fly. But if people do crossover for WGR points and have plenty of R2D money in the bank (looking at you top 10 euro guys) then why wouldn't they cross over, play pga, get full WGR points and the less prestigious Euro events all of a sudden become more competitive for the mid-range player at the cost of a bit less WGR points. That's my view on it really - there's no loss for guys in top 10 since the money would be insignificant to those at the top of the money list. Take Week 5 (Euro) in Season 2: Sweeney win nets him $112,000 5th place: $42,000 10th place: $28,000 For those types of events - would you rather finish 10th and get $28,000 and 90% WGR or go PGA where money doesn't mean much - win a boatload of it - but get full WGR points (which is a more valuable commodity if you're trying to improve your WGR position). To Sweeney and his $20,000,000 winnings on Euro - it's a drop in the bucket. Humphries won 50k for a 4th place finish. He had a $1.5 million dollar gap between him and next guy on the R2D money list. That 4th place finish in a small purse event was a drop in the bucket for his money totals. He could have completely skipped the event and still be 1.45 million ahead of the next guy. Those are the types of decisions I think would influence people to create a stronger field a few more times a season. The WGR % could be tweaked obviosuly - whatever # starts to get guys thinking - maybe it's not 90%, maybe it's 85%, 80% etc...at some point you will start to weigh the option of winning a bit of money vs getting full WGR points. I just want it to be as little a change as possible which is why I started at 90% If you could find a way to get all (or nearly all) the elites in the same tourney about 20 times a year, that would be perfect, IMO. This year it was about 10, I think (4 majors, 4 WGCs, PLAYERS, Olympics), so doubling that number would be great. I think the main problem is scheduling, though. Too many high-quality tourneys are held from late March to mid August, so it'd be preferable if the additional "elite" events were spaced out better. I don't know which ones to pick as additional "elite" events, but I suppose it could be an arbitrary decision on the administrators' part. If the goal is really to have top players play together more often, maybe TCCT creates its own brand of "WGC" events in the winter months, say once a month one of the events on PGA/EURO becomes a TGC Championship event or something... like the TGCC-OHL invitational or something.
If the goal is to give the bottom players something to play for, maybe just have a secondary event available each week that anyone on EURO/PGA below WGR 50 or something can sign up for. I wonder how many would do that vs play in the actual top level PGA/EURO event each week.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 16, 2016 11:48:40 GMT -5
My proposal is about choice. Does a player want to play against the elite players or do they want to play against people who are more along their own skill set? The money is the same, the tournies are the same and the Fed ex/R2D points are the same. Even the WGR could be the same just two sets. Smurf wheres your billy Madison post mate |
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Post by TROWELHEAD on Sept 16, 2016 11:48:54 GMT -5
OK, being honest, I've had things happen in real life this week that has made me not give a flying donkey dong about anyone on this forum or the game of golf in general. So I didn't see everyone's posts, I don't have time to read 27 pages and so if I repeat something, tough Canuck. In regards to the idea of an elite tour... Do not make it PGA or Euro or anything we have right now. Create our own, special entity: The TGC Tour. This tour year in and year out would be for the top 50 players in the world in World Golf Ranking. This way, we have something special to recognize the top players in the game around the world and it allows us to show off the best that TGCT has to offer to everyone. It's a spotlight that shines every week just like a major even on the most minor of those events. They could still have majors, they could still have everything that PGA and Euro have, it's just that these are the special elites. I'm sure the top 50 won't like being segregated into their own tour, but I like the idea that the best of the best of the best are put on display for the world to see and each week it's a shootout of the best the game has to offer in their own little world. They have their own course, which can be jacked up to new levels of difficulty if need be and it puts them in place of honor. It's like in college football in real life. Right now, we have 250+ schools in the top division. But there's no way to say Alabama - South Alabama is a game people want to see. Alabama - Ohio State? Top ratings. So do people want to see The Machine go up against player #140 in the world each week? No (and I don't know who #140 is so this is not a personal shot at you). However, would people want to see The Machine, Machine, Jr, Captain Video and the other elites in their own shootout each week? Hell yeah, I'd want to see that. So I'm in favor of a special elite tour to showcase the best that TGCT has to bring to the world. I think it would be good for all of us and good to promote TGCT as the most viable and credible TGC related website/leagues in the world. An elite tour ,imo,wont work 'cause ur forcing people to play in something they dont want to . Whats better than showcasing a choice ,u can play here (Euro ) or here (Pga) both full of good players to pit urself against |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2016 11:49:48 GMT -5
If so, will I make more money playing there, even finishing 51st than playing in the regular PGA and either missing the cut or just about making it and finishing, say, 68th? If the answer is yes, I might go for it. I still don't like the idea of forcing the best players out of the regular leagues just to make it easier for everybody else, but personally, if I can still play against Ian and company even though I stink in comparison, I would be okay with this on a personal level. Naturally, that is being totally selfish and because of that would still not support this idea if it came down to an official vote. But I can see some "incentive" for me if the answers to all my questions are yes. The money, the Fed Ex points ect would all be separate from the Elite tour and the PGA/Euro. If you move from one tour to the other you would reset. Very much like the TST is now. If you are 451 and want to play against the top guys, that is your choice. Yeah you are going to end up 51st more times than not but it is your choice. If someone can take the idea of two separate tours and some how incorporate the WGR (ie making elite tours worth more) that would be great. Someone who wins 5 times on the PGA tour because they aren't on the elite, shouldnt' suddenly be top 5 in the WGR while they aren't playing on the elite tour. The big downside of this all is that the elite tour would literally be its own tour, completely separate from everything else. The only way to play against the top would be to bite the bullet and cross over, but if you do so and want to come back to the PGA/Euro, you have lost those tournaments when it comes to FED Ex points or Tourney $. I apologize to Doyley and the Admin for this suggestion cause it like doubles your workload.  |
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 16, 2016 11:54:26 GMT -5
If the goal is really to have top players play together more often, maybe TCCT creates its own brand of "WGC" events in the winter months, say once a month one of the events on PGA/EURO becomes a TGC Championship event or something... like the TGCC-OHL invitational or something.
If the goal is to give the bottom players something to play for, maybe just have a secondary event available each week that anyone on EURO/PGA below WGR 50 or something can sign up for. I wonder how many would do that vs play in the actual top level PGA/EURO event each week.
Both of these are good ideas in my book. The only thing I would suggest is increasing the frequency of the TGCC events during the slow winter months (October thru February, I guess). Maybe twice per month or thrice per two months. It'd be interesting to see how they would handle the secondary events with respect to WGR, FedEx and R2D standings, etc. |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 16, 2016 12:04:51 GMT -5
This is starting to get silly now. If people in the elite tours (PGA & EURO) feel like they cant compete or dont wanna compete create another tour for them to play in. Doyley there is no way ur gonna get the top players in the Euro to happily play in the PGA as often as u like. If it becomes a forced move then ur at risk to makin these players unhappy and they may not play at all. Im sure a compromise can be struck but it needs working on. You can either have the discussion with those involved (like we are doin here or privately) or just come up with something urselves and say if ye dont like it dont play. Im pretty sure the majority of the top euro players jus dont wanna play on the PGA for many reasons. Which is why most of us are suggesting that not much changes. But the biggest problem of all is the fact these proposed changes are comin in for a brand new game and we dont hav a clue how any of us are gonna get on with it. If we were stayin on TGC 1 the merits of changes wud be there but for a brand new game it seems like guess work. We simply dont hav enough info on how things will look when we have TGC 2 and everyone goes thru Q school again. |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2016 12:07:52 GMT -5
Other options:
Make the top 50 play an extra 9 holes, the the average score of all those hole and add it to their final score!
Make the top 50 play with one eye closed and force them to consume 2 shots before each round. Make them play all their rounds consecutively.
Make it where the top 50 cannot have any birdie or eagle putt under 20 feet. If they do and make it, penalize them one shot. If they do it two times or more in a round, auto DQ.
Make it where the top 50 can only use a 7 iron period for all the rounds. (Hell Ian may still win like this)
Make it where the top 50 can't be in the top 50 or they are banned for the whole season!
Yes I'm aware how this sounds and I'm trying to illustrate that all suggestions, even my own are all ridiculous and go counter to the way the TGCT was originally setup.
For me the BEST solution is to leave it all the way it is. The season 3 will be short and we'll be having to rehash all this stuff with TGCT 2. The same folks who are elite now will most likely be elite then. You all want an idea try this.
Start a new tour like the TST. Make it for fun with separate points and money like the TST. This tour would NOT be for the elite but a fun little tour for those who aren't the elite. Only those who are 40+ WGR and on the PGA / EURO can play in an event there. It still offers competition, money, playoffs but is an alternate tour that has no bearing on all the hard work TGCT has put in to the current PGA/Euro/Web/CC tours. Someone else can even run it. Those that really want to compete against people of their own skill can play in it (if they have the time) and it therefore it is strictly voluntary.
For me this is really the only viable solution. I am in agreement that we should have more WGR or special events in the off season to make up for the fact there aren't any Majors between now and April.
Peace out.
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Post by Doyley on Sept 16, 2016 12:15:07 GMT -5
Smurf - I don't believe a new game will affect the situation much - maybe different names but I believe it'll be more of the same. But who knows - might be wise to take a wait and see approach for the first season under the new game as well. Like I said, nothing is set in stone and I'm not at the point where I feel anything needs to be forced on anyone - especially after the majority of the people that I thought I was helping out (that posted here) told me they are pretty cool with the way things are going. Doesn't mean a tweak here or there isn't going to improve things but I'm pretty open to all the discussions here including those that are saying no change is needed.
Again, will still need to hear from non-forum members and in-actives but the gist I'm getting after 27 pages is that not much change is needed so I don't see anything drastic happening.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 16, 2016 12:16:30 GMT -5
Smurf - I don't believe a new game will affect the situation much - maybe different names but I believe it'll be more of the same. But who knows - might be wise to take a wait and see approach for the first season under the new game as well. Like I said, nothing is set in stone and I'm not at the point where I feel anything needs to be forced on anyone - especially after the majority of the people that I thought I was helping out (that posted here) told me they are pretty cool with the way things are going. Doesn't mean a tweak here or there isn't going to improve things but I'm pretty open to all the discussions here including those that are saying no change is needed. Again, will still need to hear from non-forum members and in-actives but the gist I'm getting after 27 pages is that not much change is needed so I don't see anything drastic happening. Fair enough, cheers |
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Post by unclefester75 on Sept 16, 2016 12:20:32 GMT -5
Smurf - I don't believe a new game will affect the situation much - maybe different names but I believe it'll be more of the same. But who knows - might be wise to take a wait and see approach for the first season under the new game as well. Like I said, nothing is set in stone and I'm not at the point where I feel anything needs to be forced on anyone - especially after the majority of the people that I thought I was helping out (that posted here) told me they are pretty cool with the way things are going. Doesn't mean a tweak here or there isn't going to improve things but I'm pretty open to all the discussions here including those that are saying no change is needed. Again, will still need to hear from non-forum members and in-actives but the gist I'm getting after 27 pages is that not much change is needed so I don't see anything drastic happening. All this for nothing? Come on! Change something! Anything! #Non-EliteLivesMatter |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2016 12:25:14 GMT -5
#Non-EliteLivesMatter!!
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